[Albion] Burnley taken over

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’ve just had a quick glance at their forum. It seems anyone with a dissenting opinion about the new ownership is being shot down, the argument being that the new owners are only just into their tenure and that patience is the order of the day.

By and large, the Burnley fans seem a trusting lot.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52523

I see what you mean. They seem very impressed

 

[dsr-burnley]

Clear explanation but very worrying for Burnley fans

Correct. Very worrying. There's only three options here that I can see:

1. The new owners are in it for what they can get and will close the club down if it gets them more money.
2a. The new owners are trying to make a go of it but will take out many millions per year in fees and interest and we will get relegated with big loans and will struggle or go bust.
2b. The new owners will try to make a go of it and will succeed in bringing in new income streams that more than cover the outgoings and it all goes well.

Sadly, I think both 1 and 2a are more likely than 2b.

 

[El Presidente]

Correct. Very worrying. There's only three options here that I can see:

1. The new owners are in it for what they can get and will close the club down if it gets them more money.
2a. The new owners are trying to make a go of it but will take out many millions per year in fees and interest and we will get relegated with big loans and will struggle or go bust.
2b. The new owners will try to make a go of it and will succeed in bringing in new income streams that more than cover the outgoings and it all goes well.

Sadly, I think both 1 and 2a are more likely than 2b.

1 Is not realistic. Turf Moor as an asset is not worth very much as a standalone, certainly far less than £200m.
2a is unlikely. The loans have come from third parties rather than the owners themselves, so the parties making money from interest charges. Can't see Alan Pace taking money out in fees and dividends, as unlikely to be making operational profits to take out the fees unless sell players, which runs risk of relegation.
2b is the most likely IMO. The owners are convinced they have a Moneyball model that will work, they're not alone in football with that viewpoint though. They will have seen that the average NBA franchise is worth $2.4bn and therefore Burnley look very cheap if they stay in the EPL and can be 'flipped' at a big profit in 3-5 years time.

 

[bobby baxter]

Will be interesting to hear Alistair Campbells opinion.

 

[Jim in the West]

A friend is a minoroity share holder, he has a meeting with others and new chaiman soon, apparently the new guys CV's look good, no assets to strip really, intentions seemingly sound . . may possibly be looking for total control so they can pay themselves all the dividends . . . . time will tell, but it doesn't look 'bad' . . . . yet.

Ref the comment about "no assets to strip" - well, they had circa £50m in the bank a few weeks ago, which has been replaced by a nice little IOU from the new owners.

I'm not saying the new owners don't have good intentions. They have been fairly smart in acquiring an EPL club by only putting in £15m of their own money.

It is, however, incredibly difficult to maintain life in the Premier League without spending loads of money. Burnley have, in recent history, been very successful in that respect, but a huge amount of the credit for that has to go to Dyche. He's fashioned teams of mainly English players with a lot of physicality, and matched his tactics to suit.

Tony Bloom obviously realised some time ago that we were never going to be able to sustain OUR position without a somewhat unique approach (which is all about the Academy, identifying young players who we can bring in and develop over time, and bringing in good coaches and backroom staff).

It looks like ALK want to tweak the Burnley approach, and use their Ai platform to identify new talent that they can acquire cheaply. It may work - but that sort of approach strikes me as a long term game, and in the short term they need to be ever more competitive in the Premier League.

If I were Sean Dyche I'd actually be pretty happy, as it seems he has a huge amount of leverage. Without him over the next couple of years they could be in trouble.

 

[Swansman]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt

 

[blue-shifted]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt

Looks like a crazy gamble with the clubs future from where I stand.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Looks like a crazy gamble with the clubs future from where I stand.

Nothing crazy from the new owner's point of view. They have paid £15m and will probably take £10m from the club each year we're in the PL. After that, they can walk away leaving the club with all the debt.

Nothing crazy from the previous owner's point of view. They have spent years building up a cash reserve by prudent (lack of) signings and careful wage management, and now they have walked off with all the profit and more.

For the club? We're screwed. If we get relegated, we sell all the players worth anything and struggle on like Huddersfield; or we go bust. I don't see any other realistic options.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt

Thank goodness for Tony

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Nothing crazy from the new owner's point of view. They have paid £15m and will probably take £10m from the club each year we're in the PL. After that, they can walk away leaving the club with all the debt.

Nothing crazy from the previous owner's point of view. They have spent years building up a cash reserve by prudent (lack of) signings and careful wage management, and now they have walked off with all the profit and more.

For the club? We're screwed. If we get relegated, we sell all the players worth anything and struggle on like Huddersfield; or we go bust. I don't see any other realistic options.

Its ****ing SHITTY and should not be allowed.

Shameful.

 

[Icy Gull]

Correct. Very worrying. There's only three options here that I can see:

1. The new owners are in it for what they can get and will close the club down if it gets them more money.
2a. The new owners are trying to make a go of it but will take out many millions per year in fees and interest and we will get relegated with big loans and will struggle or go bust.
2b. The new owners will try to make a go of it and will succeed in bringing in new income streams that more than cover the outgoings and it all goes well.

Sadly, I think both 1 and 2a are more likely than 2b.

Real shame, you were the perfect example of how a smaller club gets by in the PL without risking the club. I am surprised it has come to this and shame on the previous owners. Only marginally better than what happened to the Albion back in the day potentially it seems?

 

[Eeyore]

Nothing crazy from the new owner's point of view. They have paid £15m and will probably take £10m from the club each year we're in the PL. After that, they can walk away leaving the club with all the debt.

Nothing crazy from the previous owner's point of view. They have spent years building up a cash reserve by prudent (lack of) signings and careful wage management, and now they have walked off with all the profit and more.

For the club? We're screwed. If we get relegated, we sell all the players worth anything and struggle on like Huddersfield; or we go bust. I don't see any other realistic options.

Burnley was a club that was a beacon of efficient and sustainable management. It's also a big and important name in English football.

This is less about the 'fit and proper' test and more about fit and proper approaches in running age old community institutions. The club is now a play thing. I'm sad to hear this.

I'd be less bothered if this was Manchester United to be honest, but because it's Burnley it's bothering me for some reason. They are a 'bread and butter' club in the English game with huge local support against a backdrop of larger clubs. I admire those who don't bugger off to Manchester to get their fix. Proper football folk. And they've been rewarded in recent years.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt

Its ****ing SHITTY and should not be allowed.

Shameful.

‘the Premier League still has no policy to bar the imposition of loans on clubs to pay for takeovers.’
It would be a straightforward rule change designed to protect the interests of its members. It doesn’t happen because too many in football care more about money than our football heritage.

 

[Swansman]

Think it would be wise to first and foremost deny foreign ownership (current owners grandfathered obv) of English clubs, then perhaps trying to gradually move over to the 51% rule in the long run. Would make the whole sport more sane. Probably about a 0% chance of it happening though, if I'm generous.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Its ****ing SHITTY and should not be allowed.

Shameful.

Thank you.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Think it would be wise to first and foremost deny foreign ownership (current owners grandfathered obv) of English clubs, then perhaps trying to gradually move over to the 51% rule in the long run. Would make the whole sport more sane. Probably about a 0% chance of it happening though, if I'm generous.

I think that would have to come from Government. There seem to be plenty of ‘football task forces’ in Parliament but they do bugger all apart from talk about ticket prices and the like. Legislation is need to sort out football governance because the game won’t do anything itself.

 

[Swansman]

Got to wonder how Dyche feels about getting turned into some kind of pimp, working very hard while knowing that every hard fought relegation battle and the few players he develop into something worthwhile will just be used to feed some borderline criminal yanks.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Got to wonder how Dyche feels about getting turned into some kind of pimp, working very hard while knowing that every hard fought relegation battle and the few players he develop into something worthwhile will just be used to feed some borderline criminal yanks.

To make it clear, there is no criminality involved here, Dodgy dealing, yes, Garlick and JohnB (former owners) are definitely guilty parties IMO; for all we know, the yanks may have the right intentions. Our best hopes is that ALK and Alan Pace (new chairman) are actually quite good at their job and we stay in the PL and carry on as before (but with less money!). But I am not confident.

As for Dyche, he has spent the last year chipping at Garlick whenever he got the chance. Presumably with the idea of getting in a new chairman willing to spend. Another transfer window has gone by with no new signings, and we may have a new chairman with more willingness to spend or we may not, but he doesn't appear to have more money. Who knows. I've thought for years that if the right club made him an offer he would leave, but the clubs that could both offer him a better job AND are likely yo offer it, are few. And none of them have wanted him yet.

 

[blue-shifted]

Albion and Burnley have been pretty close in the league over the last 5 years and that has inevitably led to a few spats.

But anything that threatens the existence of a league club should transcend any football rivalry.

What's really sad is that this was done under the cover of covid, meaning fans can't mobilise on matchdays to show their feelings.

It also puts into perspective the fans of Newcastle and West Ham, who are revolting (they really are revolting) because the £40m striker their chairman bought isn't scoring as many goals as they expected.

Burnley fans actually have something serious to protest about ... but can't. It's very sad

 

[chaileyjem]

I’ve had a load of stick from Burnley fans (and Alan Pace) today so was trying to be nice as didn’t want to fall out with you too.

The interest rates quoted would seem to be about right as MSD Holdings borrowed at 9% themselves last year so will want to make a profit.

The excellent David Conn summed up this rather depressing takeover in the Guardian this morning. Don't expect any £50m signings in a hurry.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-left-club-90m-worse-off-and-loaded-with-debt