[Albion] Bum bandits

[Conelli98]

I will fully support Barber should he decide to cash in with a special FA cup kit. As long as it's either pink and glittery or rainbow.

Every Brighton fan should be given a Rainbow scarf on their seat by Barber and smuggle in as many blow up Rainbow unicorns as possible! That will cheer up the locals and add to the atmosphere!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Should be able to come out with a small profit after picking all the loose change randomly donated by the home fans.

 

[darkwolf666]

You're missing the point. It isn't about straight people putting up with the banter, it's about the gay people in sections of both crowds who are basically hearing 1000s chanting negative things about being gay. Such chants can have a lasting impact on them. Plus crowds should be able to create a good atmosphere without discriminating against minority groups.

Do gay people support Millwall... Imagine the soul searching that person had to do, before finally coming out to their parents "Mum, Dad I hope you won't be disappointed in me, and I can't find an easy way to say this, but.... I'm a Millwall fan". Oh the humiliation for the family, the knowing looks in the street, whispers as they walk by!!!

 

[Eeyore]

Not all members of the LGBT community are shrinking violets. From my perspective, I can dish it as good as I can take it (no pun intended). Other LGBT individuals may well agree with what you've said, but I seriously would question their passion for the game if such so-called "homophobic" chants have a lasting impact on them. Many gay people (especially football fans) that I know - including myself - are actually very self-deprecating and would laugh along with the sneering and the mocking. Knowing that in truth, it illustrates the insecurities of a subset of supporters, who adopt the herd mentality that makes people do and say crazy-ass things.

For what it's worth, I fully agree with your last point though. But some things will never change, and clubs will look for stereotypes to take the piss out of the opposition. You have to just rise above it... or throw a bit of stick back in their direction. I'm not saying this is right; I'm saying this is just football.

The issue of race that you bring up in your later post is a classic case of whataboutery. I couldn't comment on that myself.

I would also like to quickly point out the hypocrisy of Millwall on two fronts:

1) They are based in the centre of a city that has even more LGBT people per capita than Brighton. Their stadium is barely 5 miles as the crow flies from Soho FFS;
2) They really do have an irony deficiency. After the 7/7 atrocities, I believe they played Luton Town, the latter making fun of the casualities from those attacks (IMO far more tasteless and perverse than some mild anti-gay chants). Suffice to say, the 'Wall were none too pleased.

When non-football-loving people ask me why I enjoy the sport, I point out that the electric atmosphere created at times can unite groups of strangers. It is a tribal thing that's hard to explain. This electric atmosphere can be even more intense when there is a level of antagonism from both sets of fans. The non-football-supporting people don't understand, and that's why they will never have an affinity for the game like I do, and you do. Do not for one second think I'm condoning cut-throat gestures, death threats, comments about AIDS and physical abuse. Quite the opposite: I am saying that crying foul on cliched terrace chants actually distracts from the more serious cases of genuine homophobia that do have an impact on LGBT people (and those from other minorities)

It is indeed just words. But there is a problem, and my view, once the same as yours, has shifted.

The problem lays in using, seemingly benign, chants about being gay as an insult. It normalises such behaviour. And so it extends, under the guise of banter, to other walks of life.

A friend once told me how he kept getting it at work, nothing poisonous, but people who thought they were being funny. He told me how being singled out just ground him down.

There are other scenarios and walks of life where it may occur and those who use the term 'that's gay' or similar such as 'banter' don't realise they are infering insult. And it shouldn't be an insult.

Your feelings are different. But someone just close to 'coming out', especially in a less diverse part of society, may feel otherwise. Perhaps being gay could be used in light carry on innuendo amongst friends who know each other but it should never be traded as an insult. And questioning if your partner knows your whereabouts, as amusing as it is on the surface, is intended as an insult to gay people. This isn't just about football. It's about generational attitudes and education.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Spot on. Some real preciousness on here today. The 1991 play off semi up there, and the one at the Goldstone before it, were among the top 5 memories supporting the Albion, which I have done in person since '72. Get up there, cheer the team to Wembley because we will probably not get a better chance, and enjoy what will be an amazing atmosphere.

The reason that homophobic abuse was made a crime was because the gay community experience a lot of suicides, and gay men risk being killed. Just last year after Pride, someone was threatening to stab gay people.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-homophobia-train-southern-rail-a8479561.html

You want an atmosphere at a football match then sing, chant and make an atmosphere but don't dismiss discrimination as being precious.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do gay people support Millwall... Imagine the soul searching that person had to do, before finally coming out to their parents "Mum, Dad I hope you won't be disappointed in me, and I can't find an easy way to say this, but.... I'm a Millwall fan". Oh the humiliation for the family, the knowing looks in the street, whispers as they walk by!!!

Millwall has its own gay supporters group the Pink Lions.

 

[Conelli98]

We'll have to have our wits about us. If we do, then this is totally winnable.

Seems Millwall think we are a tough nut to crack, although they'll be banking on another Everton performance. However, I don't think Everton put out a strong squad for them, and I think they have little depth. Our' second 11' however, I have faith in. Look at the 'second' team - Biss, Bernardo, Bruno, Burn, Button, Knocky etc. These players are fighting for first team places.


This from the Millwall chatroom sums it up...

"Gonna be a tough one this, Chris Hughton is nobody’s fool and will pay us due respect. Also in Dunk and Duffy have a very good CB pairing, and with Knockaert and of course Murray up front they have players who have experience of playing at The Den. Hopefully we can get one back on them for stitching us up with Skalak."

Bissouma is suspended unfortunately...

 

[A1X]

En masse sing-a-long of YMCA, anyone?

 

[Easy 10]

It is indeed just words. But there is a problem, and my view, once the same as yours, has shifted.

The problem lays in using, seemingly benign, chants about being gay as an insult. It normalises such behaviour. And so it extends, under the guise of banter, to other walks of life.

A friend once told me how he kept getting it at work, nothing poisonous, but people who thought they were being funny. He told me how being singled out just ground him down.

There are other scenarios and walks of life where it may occur and those who use the term 'that's gay' or similar such as 'banter' don't realise they are infering insult. And it shouldn't be an insult.

Your feelings are different. But someone just close to 'coming out', especially in a less diverse part of society, may feel otherwise. Perhaps being gay could be used in light carry on innuendo amongst friends who know each other but it should never be traded as an insult. And questioning if your partner knows your whereabouts, as amusing as it is on the surface, is intended as an insult to gay people. This isn't just about football. It's about generational attitudes and education.

Nailed it.

 

[Easy 10]

Bissouma is suspended unfortunately...

Infuriating isn't it.

He got away with the foul (which was a borderline yellow), then stupidly hung around right next to the ball stopping them from taking the free kick. Everyone was back, there was no risk even if they had taken it quickly. He was absolutely asking for it, especially once the Derby players started grizzling and appealing.

Now he misses the biggest game of the season, and we will certainly miss him.

 

[TheJasperCo]

It is indeed just words. But there is a problem, and my view, once the same as yours, has shifted.

The problem lays in using, seemingly benign, chants about being gay as an insult. It normalises such behaviour. And so it extends, under the guise of banter, to other walks of life.

A friend once told me how he kept getting it at work, nothing poisonous, but people who thought they were being funny. He told me how being singled out just ground him down.

There are other scenarios and walks of life where it may occur and those who use the term 'that's gay' or similar such as 'banter' don't realise they are infering insult. And it shouldn't be an insult.

Your feelings are different. But someone just close to 'coming out', especially in a less diverse part of society, may feel otherwise. Perhaps being gay could be used in light carry on innuendo amongst friends who know each other but it should never be traded as an insult. And questioning if your partner knows your whereabouts, as amusing as it is on the surface, is intended as an insult to gay people. This isn't just about football. It's about generational attitudes and education.

Context really is key here. A faceless crowd of morons throwing stupid remarks at a rival crowd of strangers is different to the schoolyard say, or the workplace. There's a difference between sinister comments from acquaintances, and a throwaway remark from a random idiot. Can you imagine a kid agonising over whether his parents will accept him if he 'comes out'? Coming out to a relative who labels all gays as 'poofs', 'batty boys' and worse? This happens daily of course - you don't need me to preach - and in that context, I fully agree with what you're getting at. Fortunately this didn't happen to me, but it's why I'm not here to generalise or speak for others.

Just because it doesn't affect me does not mean other people aren't affected (especially those youngsters who aren't out yet - as you rightly say). I think it is fair enough when you talk about education and generational attitudes. That's why I've tried my hardest not to use that shitty word 'banter'.

But then we get into the realms of a debate that should be saved for another day, perhaps. All I know is that I really want a ticket for this game, but with under sixty LP, that's unlikely

 

[BBassic]

I often wonder about younger fans of the other clubs we play when we turn up at their ground.

Imagine being a kid or a teenager, struggling with your sexuality and identity, and all around you you've got people, the people you sit with every Saturday, slinging homophobic bullshit as if it was going out of fashion. How hard must that be to reconcile in your head?

 

[Rogero]

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53o3lx

Do you remember this on you tube a Millwall gran swearing.

 

[darkwolf666]

Millwall has its own gay supporters group the Pink Lions.

I was joking

 

[Eeyore]

Context really is key here. A faceless crowd of morons throwing stupid remarks at a rival crowd of strangers is different to the schoolyard say, or the workplace. There's a difference between sinister comments from acquaintances, and a throwaway remark from a random idiot. Can you imagine a kid agonising over whether his parents will accept him if he 'comes out'? Coming out to a relative who labels all gays as 'poofs', 'batty boys' and worse? This happens daily of course - you don't need me to preach - and in that context, I fully agree with what you're getting at. Fortunately this didn't happen to me, but it's why I'm not here to generalise or speak for others.

Just because it doesn't affect me does not mean other people aren't affected (especially those youngsters who aren't out yet - as you rightly say). I think it is fair enough when you talk about education and generational attitudes. That's why I've tried my hardest not to use that shitty word 'banter'.

But then we get into the realms of a debate that should be saved for another day, perhaps. All I know is that I really want a ticket for this game, but with under sixty LP, that's unlikely

I rather suspect those tickets will be hard to come by. Maybe crack open a bottle of wine like I will and know that if all goes well you will be going to Wembley !

I think I should have been clearer. You say, I believe correctly, that 'A faceless crowd of morons throwing stupid remarks at a rival crowd of strangers is different to the schoolyard say, or the workplace.' I want to do dissect it for clarity though. The chants of those faceless morons have a connection to harsher experience of it elsewhere. That's where context becomes redundant. The seemingly benign insults being thrown are in fact a gateway to an endorsement, whether conscious or not, of worsening attitudes. They influence- in fact a tribal mentality is most impressionable. What we may audibly hear at a match is probably a sanitised snap shot of what is actually going on in that group at the time. And amongst them, again, impressionable people. And so it mushrooms.

There is a part of me that feels a bit 'woke' and right on when I express such a view. But then, when I break it down, I realise its wider affect is greater than its initial sting. Homophobia, amongst other forms of prejudice, is a scourge- and folk must be made aware of how easy it is to unwittingly endorse it with a sticks and stones approach.

 

[Hamilton]

En masse sing-a-long of YMCA, anyone?

I think that if that would send the lower reaches of their support into homophobic spasms then it could be justified.

Not all Millwall are homophobes, but they are the most unpleasant set of supporters I've had the displeasure to watch perform in the home environment (and their away one too.)

 

[Dancin Ninja BHA]

Never been to an away game at Millwall. Would love to go to this one with 13-year-old daughter. Is that a good idea and is there any advice that veterans of New Den awaydays would offer us? .

Deffo recommend ……..it's a really good away day, close, loads of excellent places to eat and drink around Borough Market / London Bridge before the game and just a short 5 minute train to their crappy ground - well segregated, policed, etc.

Do it, we more often than not do well against them, think it's a great game to take her to and to see an away win.

 

[Weststander]

Inside the steel gate?

I’m guessing, on the final part of the route before that?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

In the interests of balance I'd buy this man a pint if I saw him

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/06/millwall-fan-roy-larner-london-bridge-attackers

 

[Rowdey]

In the interests of balance I'd buy this man a pint if I saw him

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/06/millwall-fan-roy-larner-london-bridge-attackers

Fair play for that stand; a complete nutter who your'd love to have on your side, but interestingly he was convicted of racism a few months later.