Build A Bonfire

[house your seagull]

Shame on you 'house your seagull'. I appreciate that you're probably too young to have been a part of the protest movement but we had to use every avenue that was open to us, even the unpleasant ones.

that's a bit harsh

i was there, i was part of it, though admittedly i was too young to understand the politics of it, i am also part of the lost generation because of what happened in 96/97 so please, don't shame me, that's not fair.

i understand the consequential benefits of york, and i know your work was admirable and that 'desperate times ...' etc. I would never want to criticise the actions of any true fans in the protests, and sorry if it came out like that, but i remember 2 things that made that day weird (for me anyway) ...

1 - my dad (a true northstander) buying tickets in the west for the game. don't know why, i think he knew something was going to happen.

2 - all the plastics at my school (blatch) going to the match because they knew there would be trouble, this appealed to them, and a lot of others by the looks of things, whereas i never found any of it appealing, i found it all very troubling.

 

[maffew]

Wish I was a fan in these times

 

[The Large One]

Wish I was a fan in these times

I wouldn't say it has been exactly 'romanticised', but we are approaching that period where we can storm back a bunch of happy fans without a care and look back on our darkest hour, raise our glasses high and say with satisfaction, 'we were there'...

However, back then, as exciting as it was, it was also horrible. 'Poisonous' an Ipswich Town supporting mate called it.

We didn't know how it was going to play out, what was going to happen next, whether we'd stay in the league, stay in business, stay in Sussex - anything. We didn't know if Archer would shift his ground (and it wasn't until we were at Gillingham that he finally did).

Exciting - and proud - to look back on, but horrible to have been there, going through the wringer.

 

[maffew]

I wouldn't say it has been exactly 'romanticised', but we are approaching that period where we can storm back a bunch of happy fans without a care and look back on our darkest hour, raise our glasses high and say with satisfaction, 'we were there'...

However, back then, as exciting as it was, it was also horrible. 'Poisonous' an Ipswich Town supporting mate called it.

We didn't know how it was going to play out, what was going to happen next, whether we'd stay in the league, stay in business, stay in Sussex - anything. We didn't know if Archer would shift his ground (and it wasn't until we were at Gillingham that he finally did).

Exciting - and proud - to look back on, but horrible to have been there, going through the wringer.

yeah I understand totally, having moved to Brighton in 2000 never got to go to the Goldstone. I hear all the stories and threads like this and would have like to have been part of it, however bad it was

I feel left out

 

[Harold]

i didn't like the york game protest.

the goalposts being snapped is very symbolic, in a negative way i think. did albion fans actually snap the goalposts? was it somebody on here?

if i saw somebody vandalising falmer, or withdean to an extent, i would go mad at them, the goldstone was an extension of all of us (even those who never went, it is an inherant and permananet part of our culture as albion fans) and defacing it was wrong, i'm sure you'd all do the same.

perhaps it was a means to achieve the ultimate ends, but there was a lot of non-albion fans there that day, and not in a good way like Fans United, which i believe was the most beautiful and impressive achievement.

pitch invasions with yobs can happen anytime, fans united will not happen like that again. that chant "fans. united. will never be defeated" was so powerful. even the actual last game had a far different atmosphere than the york game, the york game was possessed with external negativity, a fools riot, very different from the focussed and calculated operations that ousted A & B in the long term.

I'll be honest, I'm not overly keen on TSLR and tend to ignore your comments on here in general. Not this one though. Your attempt to infer that the behaviour at York City was nothing more than a mindless "fools riot" (usurped by non-Albion fans) is not appreciated. I know unfocussed, mindless and foolish behaviour when I see it (your cohorts behaviour last season at Hudds for example).

Yes - if I saw someone vandalising Falmer/Withdean mindlessly I would certainly step in, but that's nothing like the same situation at all. Why use that as a comparison?

I can't recreate the mood of the day, but most fans thought it was the end of the line. We genuinely believed we were about to lose everything.

Just because no-one could reliably predict what would unfold, does not make it mindless, unfocussed or uncalculated. Yes it was a largely spontanous incident, with only the mildest hint of supporters organisation. However the aim (like all our protests) was to disrupt normal proceedings, and draw attention to our plight. The implementation of that aim was neither driven by, nor over-run by non-Albion fans (first crossbar broken by a staunch Albion fan I can guarantee you). Yes it was hostile and volatile, but then so was the mood of the day, unsurprising given the unbelievable amount of provocation (and indifference from authorities) we'd endured. Yes fans did things that day they'd never have imagined themselves doing, however in such ways history is made. Non-Albion fans were there yes, but the up-rising remained ours, our point still got through. Yes it was an outpouring of anger and frustration, never positive traits, but the time for sensitivity and respect had long passed. They were never all going to be nice days like 'Fans United'.

Whether the events of that day sit easy with you, or not, is a personal thing. I doubt anyone actually liked it, but many understood/stand the need for it. That day projected our plight fairly and squarely onto the sporting/national agenda, and made those responsible squirm like nothing else had.

The people I know that participated were not mindless, and not fools, and all staunch Albion fans. Not johnny come latelys, and certainly not violent inadequates attracted like moths to a flame.

You say the Goldstone was a permanent part of our culture, well it wasn't physically permanent, those b******s took it and destroyed it. You get hung up on negative symbolism if you like, but they took what was ours. Many of us wanted it back, and many took the chance to make that point to the world.

(Apologies for the rant, but that post peeved me a little).

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'll be honest, I'm not overly keen on TSLR and tend to ignore your comments on here in general. Not this one though. Your attempt to infer that the behaviour at York City was nothing more than a mindless "fools riot" (usurped by non-Albion fans) is not appreciated. I know unfocussed, mindless and foolish behaviour when I see it (your cohorts behaviour last season at Hudds for example).

Yes - if I saw someone vandalising Falmer/Withdean mindlessly I would certainly step in, but that's nothing like the same situation at all. Why use that as a comparison?

I can't recreate the mood of the day, but most fans thought it was the end of the line. We genuinely believed we were about to lose everything.

Just because no-one could reliably predict what would unfold, does not make it mindless, unfocussed or uncalculated. Yes it was a largely spontanous incident, with only the mildest hint of supporters organisation. However the aim (like all our protests) was to disrupt normal proceedings, and draw attention to our plight. The implementation of that aim was neither driven by, nor over-run by non-Albion fans (first crossbar broken by a staunch Albion fan I can guarantee you). Yes it was hostile and volatile, but then so was the mood of the day, unsurprising given the unbelievable amount of provocation (and indifference from authorities) we'd endured. Yes fans did things that day they'd never have imagined themselves doing, however in such ways history is made. Non-Albion fans were there yes, but the up-rising remained ours, our point still got through. Yes it was an outpouring of anger and frustration, never positive traits, but the time for sensitivity and respect had long passed. They were never all going to be nice days like 'Fans United'.

Whether the events of that day sit easy with you, or not, is a personal thing. I doubt anyone actually liked it, but many understood/stand the need for it. That day projected our plight fairly and squarely onto the sporting/national agenda, and made those responsible squirm like nothing else had.

The people I know that participated were not mindless, and not fools, and all staunch Albion fans. Not johnny come latelys, and certainly not violent inadequates attracted like moths to a flame.

You say the Goldstone was a permanent part of our culture, well it wasn't physically permanent, those b******s took it and destroyed it. You get hung up on negative symbolism if you like, but they took what was ours. Many of us wanted it back, and many took the chance to make that point to the world.

(Apologies for the rant, but that post peeved me a little).

Thanks. Saved me a load of typing.

 

[Shanker45]

Wish I was a fan in these times

As people have said, now we can look back on this time with some real pride and a few laughs. Big respect to all of the "organisers" back then, the Gulls Eye gang in particular. They were really dark days at the time.
At the time we really all felt that there was a very good chance that the mighty Seagulls would be no more.
For those of us who experienced these dark days Falmer when it opens will feel like winning the lottery!

 

[house your seagull]

ok, fair enough, i'm not sure exactly what i'm trying to say with my posts, and certainly don't have the memories to post as passionately and eloquently as you.

TLO's last post perhaps sums up what i was trying to say far better than how i put it, so i retract my 'fools riot' phrase. apolgies.

harold, please don't bring TSLR into this, i thought my PM's many months ago appeased you sufficiently for you to stop this public smearing.

i find this ungentlemanly of you.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

This is absolutely true about Liam Brady, a QC literally crossed out everything he'd said and we were left with just 3 lines from his interview. I'm not sure about his managing abilities but he was a top man and hugely angry about what had happened to us. Bob Pinnock also did the same with his own interview when he read back what he'd said about Archer and Bellotti.

Re the actual book, myself and Paul are currently working out exactly what to do with it, but there will definitely be an updated cheaper paperback version to be published in time for the first game at Falmer. Seems like the perfect end to that story... Almost brings a tear just thinking about the reality of that from where we were then to now. Unbelievable.

Good news that you're planning an updated version.

Personally I hope it isn't a couple of chapters added on - SO much has happened since the end of the first book, that there's almost enough to do another complete book, let alone a couple of chapters.

The Gillingham years, Bring home the Albion, Withdean, the Falmer campaign and all that it entailed, Public Inquiries etc etc - there is SO much that has happened to our club since BaB was written.

I'm sure you'll do the full story justice .

 

[Storer68]

A bit OT, but I think Charlton before us did a pretty good job as well.

true but it was different for Charlton as they had a board of directors that the fans were generally supportive of.

As opposed to A'@@@@r B@@@@i and S@@@@y whom we wre ALL opoosed to, utterly

 

[Storer68]

that's interesting ... how many people didn't get involved?

how many fans buried their heads in the sand?

looking back it does seem like a North Strand Rebellion in true rebellion style, the working class revolt!

As you weren't there you don't know WHAT you are talking about,

Hardly burying our heads in the sand
Most of those who went in (and I was one of them) were season ticket holders who had already paid for the game so there wasn't any point in boycotting the game as my boycott would have had NO effect whatsoever.

And add to the fact that the situation then was truly desperate. Had we failed to get the point that we eventually did get, we would have fallen out of the league, and heaven knows whether the Knight takeover would hane gone through (it was still work in prgress whist we were at Gillingham!)

I'm afraid that in my case the need for points overcame the need to protest. Planty of others were doing that but on the field we were shocking and desperate for whatever we coudl get.

I'm not proud that I went in (bit lie crossing a picket line) but those who were trying to p[ersuade us not to go in, fully undeerstood and sympathised with the dilema.................... but I feel vindicated in that we styed up possibly because of the point we got against Hereford+

 

[Storer68]

'A different kind of riot'. Excellent way of putting it.



As I understand it, and I'm sure someone will correct this, Liam got the consortium together. The first we saw of Dick Knight was at a public meeting at Hove Town Hall in September or October 1996.

As for the protests, I don't recall Dick ever getting involved in them at all.

Correct and correct

 

[Storer68]

Just so you know.

York was NOT a pitch invasion.

It was a stoll onto the pitch on a very pleasant sunny Saturday afternoon. To stop a game of football that we had all PAID to watch There was NO violence.

 

[house your seagull]

As you weren't there you don't know WHAT you are talking about,

where have you got that from? i was there!

minton scored i think ...

 

[Pantani]

where have you got that from? i was there!

minton scored i think ...

Can I suggest not posting on this thread anymore. You were what 10, 11, 12, at the time? It is understandable that you felt differently than others as you were so young but those who were old enough understood the significance of York. It was reclaiming our ground, if we then decided to smash it up it was because the Goldstone belonged to the supporters not Archer.

As others have said it was the turning point in the fight to save the Albion. I felt much different after Doncaster and just had to leave straight away as it was too painful but York was necessary.

 

[teaboy]

The (abandoned) York game is one of my worst Albion memories. Leaving the Goldstone in tears never to return (as far as I knew at the time), as my football club was (literally) torn apart was truely horrible.

However, I applaud every single Albion fan there that day, especially those who ended the game. Without such a massive gesture showing just how broken our club was then there would've been no Gillingham, no Withdean and certainly no Falmer. There probably wouldn't be a Brighton and Hove Albion.

Supporting the Albion through 'the troubles' was nerve-wracking. Not knowing whether there'd be a club to support, and if so where they'd play was awful.

Thanks to us, you, and the new board we survive, and I truely look forward to the time I'll almost feel like we support a 'normal' team.

 

[jezzer]

Re- CHAPPERS "The atmosphere at the Orient game was the most charged I've ever experienced."

SO SO right! What a game that was, the atmosphere was unbelievable, especially in the 2nd half when all the drama unfolded.

Can remember I was still physically shaking after the whistle went and it was only my brothers young son`s 2nd or 3rd time he`d been and we all said afterwards he`ll never see a game like that again in his lifetime, it had everything and the almost evil tension pouring out from the stands was like something i`d never felt before at the goldstone, incredible. He hardly missed a home game after that and needless to say he`s 20 now and a STH like all of us.

 

[Brovion]

that's a bit harsh

i was there, i was part of it, though admittedly i was too young to understand the politics of it, i am also part of the lost generation because of what happened in 96/97 so please, don't shame me, that's not fair.

i understand the consequential benefits of york, and i know your work was admirable and that 'desperate times ...' etc. I would never want to criticise the actions of any true fans in the protests, and sorry if it came out like that, but i remember 2 things that made that day weird (for me anyway) ...

1 - my dad (a true northstander) buying tickets in the west for the game. don't know why, i think he knew something was going to happen.

2 - all the plastics at my school (blatch) going to the match because they knew there would be trouble, this appealed to them, and a lot of others by the looks of things, whereas i never found any of it appealing, i found it all very troubling.

If you understand the consequential benefits of the York protest why criticise it? You sound as if you've been brainwashed by the News Of The World (who also thought it was just a load of mindless hooligans), whereas in fact, by your own admission, you were just a snotty little kid who didn't really understand what was happening.

And I'm sure there were some non-Albion fans involved and I'm sure there were a few who revelled in the destruction - but they were a tiny minority. I think the reason myself and others are pissed off with you is because we really didn't want to do it. When I saw those crossbars snap I felt sick, but I also knew it had to be done. If all we'd done is invade the pitch we'd eventually have been cleared off it, the match would have re-started and we wouldn't have been the headlines on the Six O'Cloclk news that evening.

 

[janee]

Can I say in House your Seagulls defense that he was definitely there and the youngest contributor to the Build a Bonfire Book (there is even a photo of him!)

and the York game was mad on the day - I walked away feeling very torn beacuse of the hangers on and I was 18 years older than him. Of course with time ...it had to happen but it still felt weird on the day.

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

That was a defining moment. It was uncertain whether or not that fucker would show, he left it later than usual to take his seat hoping to slip in unnoticed. Within seconds he was fleeing and guys like BRIGHT ON Q were only one wall away from him. After that we knew we'd never seem him at the Goldstone again and the team became the priority during the games and the belief we could overturn the deficit and stay up. It still makes me angry thinking of the brazen arrogance he showed in taking his seat and the rage that came to the surface of the passionate 22 year old contributing to what must have been a scary moment for him. How I wish you'd made it BRIGHT ON Q.

This is no word of a lie and others will back me up,we got right inside the west stand with only a pair of doors into the directors lounge separating us and Bellotti.The trouble was the doors were hinged the wrong way,in other words they hinged out towards us and they had bloody great door stops preventing them from opening.Everyone one was kicking shit out of them but they did not budge.If they had opened the other way it would have been carnage.