[Music] British v American Punk

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Recently my teenage daughter got interested in music that wasn't just Billy Eilish ( nothing wrong with her btw). She got really into Radiohead and Nirvana and then started to ask me their influences.

So I created a very random playlist of various 60s/70s/ 80s and 90s bands

A few weeks later and she is listening to the Dead Kennedys and quizzing me about the difference between British and American punk.

So now I am listening to the Ramones, New York Dolls, the Clash and Buzzcocks and trying to decide which version of punk is the best.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I've voted American on the basis that I'm including The Stooges and Television.

I'd have thought that both Nirvana and Radiohead owe more to King Crimson (more specially, Red) than any of the punk bands.

 

[smillie's garden]

Where’s the option for “Love Both”?

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Where’s the option for “Love Both”?

That's where I am too, but, if you have to lose one forever, which would it be.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I've voted American on the basis that I'm including The Stooges and Television.

I'd have thought that both Nirvana and Radiohead owe more to King Crimson (more specially, Red) than any of the punk bands.

Sorry, I wasn't drawing a direct link, just they were a starting point for the playlist I created for her. There actually wasn't too much punk, but a bit more new wave, but that is what she was drawn to.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Nice to hear of your daughters tastes, my son is 14 but Radiohead are his favourite band (and recently got me to cough up to see The Smile (Thom Yorke) at the Brighton Centre)

Although I liked the Dead Kennedy’s at the time I didn’t really listen to a lot of the US bands at the time, even The Ramones passed me by.

British all the way lead by The Sex Pistols however there were so many great bands about at the time. I was even a massive fan of Crass.

It lives on in my opinion through bands like Slaves and one of my favourite bands at the moment, Shame.

There’s a young lad (late teens) that walks around Saltdean dressed like Sid Vicious, I always say hello and smile to myself.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Sorry, I wasn't drawing a direct link, just they were a starting point for the playlist I created for her. There actually wasn't too much punk, but a bit more new wave, but that is what she was drawn to.

Oh I wasn't complaining [tell your daughter that she's doing music wrong], I just find it interesting how when people work backwards their tastes often take them in very different directions to the actual influences of the artists they enjoy.

 

[KZNSeagull]

UK for me as it seemed a lot more varied but the Dead Kennedys were one of the best overall, Plastic Surgery Disasters being an absolute belter of an album.

 

[kojak]

saw the Dead Kennedys in their prime fantastic!
That said,The Tubes are my favourite American band

Never Mind The Bollocks is the best punk album of them all,so it's the Pistols for me

 

[Blue3]

The Ramones and Iggy Pop pretty much started Punk in the USA but we were not far behind with the Sex Pistols who sadly I never got to see live and neither did the millions of others who claimed they did.
I was fortunate to see a good number of Punk bands and others we thought and I suspect so did they that they were also punk only to become new wave or just mainstream

 

[Stat Brother]

I appreciate this is dripping with Alan Partridge and is so wrong it voids me from the rest of this thread but:-

Going Steady* is one of the best albums ever.




*Shuffles off to find a copy of The Best Of The Buzzcocks to listen too.

 

[smillie's garden]

That's where I am too, but, if you have to lose one forever, which would it be.

Impossible for me to do I’m thinking, mainly because of the cross-pollination that always seems to go on between American and British music. Few would argue that the proto-punk of the Stooges, and then the NY scene, especially the Ramones, didn’t influence the first wave of British punk bands. However, Punk as a youth subculture, including the politics/nihilism and, especially, the fashion, were codified in the UK.

As an aside, Aussie punk is pretty bloody good too.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The first punk song was arguably US, laters the UK produced some classics so let"s call it a draw.

 

[Machiavelli]

Nice to hear of your daughters tastes, my son is 14 but Radiohead are his favourite band (and recently got me to cough up to see The Smile (Thom Yorke) at the Brighton Centre)

Although I liked the Dead Kennedy’s at the time I didn’t really listen to a lot of the US bands at the time, even The Ramones passed me by.

British all the way lead by The Sex Pistols however there were so many great bands about at the time. I was even a massive fan of Crass.

It lives on in my opinion through bands like Slaves and one of my favourite bands at the moment, Shame.

There’s a young lad (late teens) that walks around Saltdean dressed like Sid Vicious, I always say hello and smile to myself.

Well, I'm impressed with your son (and see you both there).
Punk's rather dull. Post-punk, on the other hand ...

 

[zefarelly]

Both . . . Very different really.

The history is well documented. . . .It's all before my time anyway.

Buzzcocks were the best band musically for me. . . NYD the best show, if we're strictly mid 70's 'punk'

New Rose nails it as far as uk 70's punk goes

us punk . . . You can drag back to the Sonics and the like, early mid 60's anyway. . . . Our best offering then was perhaps The Pretty things . . . Another hugely under rated band. Better than the stones. . . .

Lest we forget the mighty M C 5!

 

[Braggfan]

Impossible for me to do I’m thinking, mainly because of the cross-pollination that always seems to go on between American and British music. Few would argue that the proto-punk of the Stooges, and then the NY scene, especially the Ramones, didn’t influence the first wave of British punk bands. However, Punk as a youth subculture, including the politics/nihilism and, especially, the fashion, were codified in the UK.

As an aside, Aussie punk is pretty bloody good too.

I think bands like the pistols and the Clash were frauds and nothing more than manufactured bands. Obviously the were influential but only in terms of style. I think a lot of the bands that codified the politics were undoubtedly American.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was balls-deep into English punk from late 76. Finally cut off my hair early 77. Did my hair DIY for years after that. Mum said I looked 'fierce'. Could have been the eye liner and the unalloyed look of joy in the eye of an autistic boy finally enjoying freedom.

The American 'punk' wasn't really anything of the sort in 76/77. The Stooges had long gone, with Iggy a rock icon with those two albums from Berlin in the pipeline. The MC5 were always wankers. NYD were fun but were straight up and down rock, despite whatever Bob Harris thought. Richard Hell 'blank generation' was copied off UK fashion and was a bit wanky. Patti Smith was art school (good, but not punk). 1977 this is. Not 1982.

And so, English punk. Bat shit mental gigs. My mate Nils temporarily lost his eyesight watching the Damned. The Brighton scene in 77 was great fun. With me back in London late 77 I got Siousxie, The Stranglers, X Ray Spex, Gen X, Chelsea...and then by the end of 77 we had Wire and it had all moved on. The long overcoats were appearing. The Fall were here.

American 'punk, based on English punk started later. West coast stuff like Black Flag. In Canada the wonderful DOA. But I had moved on by then and 'pogoing' was not going to happen. Any more.

OK back to roots. It has been said that early punk was Rokie Erikson, The Count Five. Even Love. Even Jonathan Richman. f*** off. Punk as we know it started with The Damned. The Pistols, brilliant though they were, can easily be seen now as a rock band. Compare Neat Neat Neat with Anarchy in the UK. I love them both, but only one of them was new music. The Pistols were great rock thanks to Steve and Paul, elevated with an auteur genius vocalist, JL. His vocals were a thing of beauty. But inspired by the likes of Peter Hammill.

Anyway, truth, beauty, fashion, just enjoy what you like. Tonight I am mostly listening to Wearesadband. Life goes on, and music is life.

 

[Zeberdi]

Interesting because there are two streams of thought - was ‘punk’ defined by the style and attitude attributed to 1970s British youth culture or was it an American invention that grew on from the civil rights and other resistance movements of the 1960s? They both were about a youth subculture and both developed around the same time - but for me there’s nothing more British ( or anarchically British ) than the Sex Pistols singing GSTQ or Crass‘s nihilistic lyrics on Big A Little a.

British Punk wasn’t just a musical genre - it represented a subculture of politicised youth that was very much about life in Britain in the 1970s - anti-Thatcher, anti-class, anti-establishment messaging - so for that reason it is part of my own rebellious history in a way American Punk never could be.

Having said that- musically the sounds of the New York Dolls and the Ramones had earned their place in my teenage music collection!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think bands like the pistols and the Clash were frauds and nothing more than manufactured bands. Obviously the were influential but only in terms of style. I think a lot of the bands that codified the politics were undoubtedly American.

Rubbish.

 

[Braggfan]

Rubbish.

Which part? The pistols and the Clash were both manufactured. That's not opinion it's fact. They were selling an image, they were essentially pop stars who happened to annoy some people