[Music] British v American Punk

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hate that record. I saw them at the Roxy and the stage was taken over by the naffest nobs ever. They looked like wanky football supporters, season ticket holders at Colchester or Leyton Orient. I swear one of them was wearing a tank top.

I did buy 'I don't wanna' ('Red London/Ulster' on the b side) when it came out, but that was more than enough Sham 69 for me.

Don’t care for the song that much, but I do once recall being in the beer garden of The Hobgoblin one sunny Sunday afternoon a few decades ago, this came on the juke box or maybe a DJ played it, and the whole of the garden sang the “we’re going down the pub” bit. Amused me at the time.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I have seen them many times but never with Bon Scott. I personally thought he was a brilliant lyricist, fronting an excellent band. Their output after he died was initially great, but soon descended into parody.

I saw them on the Back in Black tour at Wembley. It was bombastic and brilliant, but I think as you say the (very successful) parody element set in soon after.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I saw them on the Back in Black tour at Wembley. It was bombastic and brilliant, but I think as you say the (very successful) parody element set in soon after.

Back in Back is a classic album full stop, regardless of genre. Not much more can be said other than I’m jealous you saw them on this tour. For Those…is great as well, Flick has its moments..Fly on the Wall is very poor.

I also think For Those About to Salute is on of the best ever live tracks. What’s not to like when you have rock music accompanied by firing cannons? It’s ridiculous and OTT, like all good hard rock should be.

 

[Stato]

I have seen them many times but never with Bon Scott. I personally thought he was a brilliant lyricist, fronting an excellent band. Their output after he died was initially great, but soon descended into parody.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I lean towards the argument that Bon wrote some lyrics for 'Back in Black' https://jessefinkbooks.com/blog/f/my-response-to-brian-johnson. 'You Shook Me All Night Long' has the same sense of humour as earlier Scott songs and after that song, AC/DC never really produced another song like it. Johnson's lyrics were far less layered, less personal and never flowed like Scott's did. They just seem a list of cliched rock'n'roll images stuck together. It's why I lost interest. You can only take so many songs about lightning striking and flames rising. Yes the riffs were always great, but without Bon they spoke to you like a bloke on a stage, not a bloke in the pub.

 

[loz]

I hate that record. I saw them at the Roxy and the stage was taken over by the naffest nobs ever. They looked like wanky football supporters, season ticket holders at Colchester or Leyton Orient. I swear one of them was wearing a tank top.

I did buy 'I don't wanna' ('Red London/Ulster' on the b side) when it came out, but that was more than enough Sham 69 for me.

Having been in close proximity to Mr Pursey, it confirmed what I had always thought….bit of a knobhead.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I lean towards the argument that Bon wrote some lyrics for 'Back in Black' https://jessefinkbooks.com/blog/f/my-response-to-brian-johnson. 'You Shook Me All Night Long' has the same sense of humour as earlier Scott songs and after that song, AC/DC never really produced another song like it. Johnson's lyrics were far less layered, less personal and never flowed like Scott's did. They just seem a list of cliched rock'n'roll images stuck together. It's why I lost interest. You can only take so many songs about lightning striking and flames rising. Yes the riffs were always great, but without Bon they spoke to you like a bloke on a stage, not a bloke in the pub.

I dont think you're derailing this thread, this is healthy music chat which has already gone off on some good tangents. You raise a good point, I had not thought about this. Have you read this

AC/DC – their 40 greatest songs, ranked!

As Back in Black turns 40, we run down the Australian hard rockers’ best numbers – full of double entendres, massive choruses and surging, strutting riffs

www.theguardian.com

The author talks about Scott's lyrics, which I hugely admire, in some of the notes about the songs. I'm disappointed I never saw him perform but he was just a few years before my time.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

...as a follow-up I did see ACDC with Axl fronting them......quite extraordinary.

 

[Mellotron]

I like almost everything around punk, without liking punk itself that much. Not sure why?

The Specials, Billy Talent, Joy Division, Siouxsie, Gang of Four, Television, The Cure, Talking Heads, Iggy Pop, New Order, The Chameleons - all great.

None of these things are truly punk, but almost all are punk-influenced.

Sorry, I don't really have that much more to add.

 

[Seagull58]

He started it, but was persuaded by Jimmy to go down the pub instead

What a truly terrible song that is. Jimmy Pursey has always been a bit of a dick.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I dont think you're derailing this thread, this is healthy music chat which has already gone off on some good tangents.

I think the thing is, the discussion about what is punk and what isn't has led people off on the tangents.
To my way of thinking, there are actually not that many "punk records" in reality, as even those "punk bands" that started out morphed into something else after an album or two (see discussion re The Clash,) and I would add The Damned and many others to that who changed with the fashion.

But then "genrelisations" can be difficult. If you say the name Bob Dylan" most people would say "Folk Singer" when in a reality he composed and sang in the folk idiom for 3 or 4 years at most out of 60 odd years in music.

 

[Seagull58]

Well, I like lots of stuff, and that's a fact.

There was a point in the late 70s when a lot of artists suddenly became old, and very hostile to the new stuff. Earlier, Eric Clapton nearly packed it it after seeing Hendrix, because he was so out of Hendrix's league. I found Clapton's later belligerence rather unpalatable. I get very irritated by people obsessed by 'musicianship' as they see it. If electric guitar playing is a competition then first prize was awarded many years ago - to John McLaughlin. Unfortunately most Claptonites can't cope with McLaughlin. Too musicianly.

And what they would make of the delightful minimalism of Wire is unknown.

Enjoy whatever noise you fancy, would be my advice. For some, who have decided that music 'stopped' at a certain date (Dany Baker says 1977) what they listen to is simply the comfort of the familiar. Perhaps that applies to you. I used to sneer at that, but not now. Who am I to dictate what other people are supposed to enjoy?

First prize was awarded to Rory Gallagher, by Hendrix.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

What a truly terrible song that is. Jimmy Pursey has always been a bit of a dick.

I remember it on Top of the Pops, almost being the punk music they were allowed to play on BBC TV as it's lyrics weren't threatening the social order like some other records.
But yes it is terrible, but actually think it's meant to be.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think the thing is, the discussion about what is punk and what isn't has led people off on the tangents.
To my way of thinking, there are actually not that many "punk records" in reality, as even those "punk bands" that started out morphed into something else after an album or two (see discussion re The Clash,) and I would add The Damned and many others to that who changed with the fashion.

But then "genrelisations" can be difficult. If you say the name Bob Dylan" most people would say "Folk Singer" when in a reality he composed and sang in the folk idiom for 3 or 4 years at most out of 60 odd years in music.

And there is the question, what is punk? It is a music style or an attitude? My take is it's an attitude, one where people realised they did not need to be virtuoso musicians to be creative....and this is what you saw initially. Slowly they became better with their instruments and this in turn led to more expression and the 'morphing' you mention.

 

[Seagull58]

Brilliant vocalist. Great non-Punk albums in 77 ….. Arrival, Rumours and Oxygene.

Bat out of Hell

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Brilliant vocalist. Great non-Punk albums in 77 ….. Arrival, Rumours and Oxygene.

Trans Europe Express as well. I still find it quite amazing that Autobahn was released in 1974!

 

[Seagull58]

I think the thing is, the discussion about what is punk and what isn't has led people off on the tangents.
To my way of thinking, there are actually not that many "punk records" in reality, as even those "punk bands" that started out morphed into something else after an album or two (see discussion re The Clash,) and I would add The Damned and many others to that who changed with the fashion.

But then "genrelisations" can be difficult. If you say the name Bob Dylan" most people would say "Folk Singer" when in a reality he composed and sang in the folk idiom for 3 or 4 years at most out of 60 odd years in music.

How would you describe Dylan's greatest album (imho), Desire?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How would you describe Dylan's greatest album (imho), Desire?

This is my favourite album of his. My favourite songs are Hurricane and Desolation Row.

 

[Mellotron]

Actually, in punk-adjacent news, I'm seeing Dr Feelgood in Shoreham next week - all I know is Milk & Alcohol, She Does It Right, Roxette.

Anyone seen them? Anything I should know/expect? Seeing them with me Dad who is a fan, excuse for a social occasion really - if it was my choice we'd be seeing The Smile next March in Brighton...

 

[Seagull58]

I remember it on Top of the Pops, almost being the punk music they were allowed to play on BBC TV as it's lyrics weren't threatening the social order like some other records.
But yes it is terrible, but actually think it's meant to be.

I was sitting in the TV room at uni watching TOTP when it came on. The room filled with laughter, partly because we had a mate called Harry but mainly because it was so dire.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

First prize was awarded to Rory Gallagher, by Hendrix.

I suspect he was being polite and self-deprecating.