[Politics] British IS Girl wanting to return to the UK

[Herr Tubthumper]

I square it with she decided to leave our society, reject our values and join a banned group even if she hasnt broken any laws as she was a minor at the time. i'm not confused at all. she shouldnt be let back in.

I presume you know you have laws in the UK. Which one would you use to prevent her re-entering, given you feel she has not broken any? Or should she be banned purely because you say so?

PS “our values” - bit arrogant of you to assume you speak on behalf of a nation. I’m sure many people have different values to you.

 

[NooBHA]

I am struggling to come to the conclusion that my morals believe I should come to.

I think she has to come back because the intelligence to be obtained could become invaluable. If she was so easily radicalised it could just as easily be reversed.

I also think that interview is just ''bravado'' she knows if she denounces ISIS and she is sent back to where she came from then it would be a death sentence for her and potentially her child.

To conclude I think she has to be brought back; however, am I comfortable with that thought. Most definitely NOT.

 

[Algernon]

She says she wants to come back to a quiet life.
If she changes her mind she'll be able to earn a substantial amount of money selling her "story" and held up as some poor unfortunate victim radicalised.

Is there an age at which legally you are able to undertake terrorist activities without being labelled as having been radicalised?
Surely you can commit terrible things of your own clear thought and not been radicalised.
It seems that being labelled as such conveniently takes a large proportion of the blame from someone.

She should not be let back into the country to everything she so obviously despises and would wipe out should she have the means. Tough luck!

 

[Miami Seagull]

Let her rot. She made her bed, let her lie in it. Irrelevant if its a male or female.

 

[OGH's Libido]

I think I am right in saying the difference between her and Lord Haw Haw is thar she is a British citizen, but he was Irish

He obtained a British passport in 1933.

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[luppers]

He obtained a British passport in 1933.

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Sorry did not know that

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Says she wants to come back so her kid will be looked after on the state. Yeah, great. Let her back in to raise her sprog who will be radicalised from birth. What a good idea!
Let her make her bed with more deserving cases out there.

 

[Diablo]

I think I am right in saying the difference between her and Lord Haw Haw is thar she is a British citizen, but he was Irish

Really? I think there is a lot of difference between the two and there is little if any relevance in comparing him with her.

 

[Hamilton]

There are probably other expectant mothers in camps who harbour the country no ill will who would like to be let in.

However, while I dislike her and everything she stands for, she is another British citizen’s daughter and the child a British citizen’s grand daughter. Assuming they are not pro-IS, where do their rights sit in this?


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[Simster]

My initial reaction was no, don't let her back into the country, and upon reflection, this remains the case.

I genuinely grappled with this too and arrived at the same conclusion.

 

[John Byrnes Mullet]

She has a right to return but needs to be made aware that she will be put to trial by Judge and Jury for going to volunteer for a terrorist organisation and assisting in the murder of innocent people and will be facing a heavy custodial service of 15 years plus then she might change her mind.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Arrested on arrival and the child taken away from her.

If she wants to go back she can, if not jail time.

 

[Icy Gull]

No mention as to whether she was involved in killing people I notice. She seems to show absolutely no remorse and is looking to take the easy way out from what I can see. She’d like medical facilties for her unborn child and that seems to be the only thing driving her to want to come back. It’s a no from me. There are far more deserving young people than her caught up in the ISIS shitfest imo.

 

[Megazone]

Stick her in the u23's and let her rot.

 

[kjgood]

I presume you know you have laws in the UK. Which one would you use to prevent her re-entering, given you feel she has not broken any? Or should she be banned purely because you say so?

PS “our values” - bit arrogant of you to assume you speak on behalf of a nation. I’m sure many people have different values to you.

I am fully aware we have laws in the UK seeing that I work with those who forget that fact. I dont think its arrogant to think that our society appreciates many freedoms that ISIS does not want us to have, that wants to live in peace in our normal lives that ISIS doesnt want us to do and we are a christian country that accepts other religons something that ISIS wants to change amongst many other things that ISIS does not tolerate. Our laws are there to protect those freedoms and I am using one of those, the freedom of speech. BTW Germany also has laws and has done a U turn on some of its more liberal thinking with regards to refugees has it not?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Arrested on arrival and the child taken away from her.

If she wants to go back she can, if not jail time.

Bit harsh as it's still inside her.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Bit harsh as it's still inside her.

Softy.....

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

In a nutshell: **** her.

She displays no remorse, no regret, she only wants to return to have her baby. So, let her have her baby and then give her the option of giving it up and having it adopted in the uk. She can either rot in prison or **** off back to whatever's left of ISIS because nowhere else will take her in.

 

[marlowe]

I'm not comfortable with the fact that we're judging the actions of a 15 year old (at the time of her actions) ethnically arab, muslim schoolgirl from a mainly (on NSC) white, working/middle class, middle aged, male perspective.

And furthermore we have no idea what her life experiences were before she made her decision, whether she ever experienced or suffered racism, islamophobia or bigotry of any kind that might have shaped or formed her character and opinions. The majority on here are fortunate enough to have been born in circumstances which determined that we would never experience any of those things.

Everything about her background and circumstances is about as diametrically alien to our own as it could be and therefore any opinion we form on her motivations is based on relative ignorance.

She was a fifteen year old child for god sake who did something incredibly stupid as fifteen year old children are inclined to do, but usually with the benefit of being able to amend or learn from their mistakes. However in her case once there she was hardly in a position to simply change her mind and do a u turn back to the UK. She'd pretty much sealed her fate and had no choice but to adapt to the situation she was now in. In that respect she should be judged in the context of what she did when she was 15. After that she had very little choice but to adapt.

Another thing that"s being overlooked when people comment on her perceived lack of remorse is that it's only being attributed to radicalisation, but it's not as simple as that. Take away the radicalisation element and there still remains the effect of the Stockholm Syndrome where captors identify and bond with their captors. Patti Hearst being the most famous example when she was kidnapped by the terrorist group the Symbionese Liberation Army.

Even kidnapping victims, both adult and children, who are then subjected to cruelty and abuse including sexual can form such a bond and dependence on their captors that even if they have the opportunity to escape they often choose not to, even to the extent where they can be left free to go out on their own and yet they still willingly return to their captor.

Although Ms Begum went voluntarily, once there she was still essentially a captive as she was not free to simply return home again if she wanted to.

So when judging her attitude and comments don't just see someone who has been radicalised, look at the psychological damage inflicted on a young, vulnerable girl in circumstances that once there were totally out of her control. Yes she has been radicalised but with the added complexity of the effects of the Stockholm Syndrome and it might be the latter which might be influencing her current statements more than the radicalisation.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'm not comfortable with the fact that we're judging the actions of a 15 year old (at the time of her actions) ethnically arab, muslim schoolgirl from a mainly (on NSC) white, working/middle class, middle aged, male perspective.

And furthermore we have no idea what her life experiences were before she made her decision, whether she ever experienced or suffered racism, islamophobia or bigotry of any kind that might have shaped or formed her character and opinions. The majority on here are fortunate enough to have been born in circumstances which determined that we would never experience any of those things.

Everything about her background and circumstances is about as diametrically alien to our own as it could be and therefore any opinion we form on her motivations is based on relative ignorance.

She was a fifteen year old child for god sake who did something incredibly stupid as fifteen year old children are inclined to do, but usually with the benefit of being able to amend or learn from their mistakes. However in her case once there she was hardly in a position to simply change her mind and do a u turn back to the UK. She'd pretty much sealed her fate and had no choice but to adapt to the situation she was now in. In that respect she should be judged in the context of what she did when she was 15. After that she had very little choice but to adapt.

Another thing that"s being overlooked when people comment on her perceived lack of remorse is that it's only being attributed to radicalisation, but it's not as simple as that. Take away the radicalisation element and there still remains the effect of the Stockholm Syndrome where captors identify and bond with their captors. Patti Hearst being the most famous example when she was kidnapped by the terrorist group the Symbionese Liberation Army.

Even kidnapping victims, both adult and children, who are then subjected to cruelty and abuse including sexual can form such a bond and dependence on their captors that even if they have the opportunity to escape they often choose not to, even to the extent where they can be left free to go out on their own and yet they still willingly return to their captor.

Although Ms Begum went voluntarily, once there she was still essentially a captive as she was not free to simply return home again if she wanted to.

So when judging her attitude and comments don't just see someone who has been radicalised, look at the psychological damage inflicted on a young, vulnerable girl in circumstances that once there were totally out of her control. Yes she has been radicalised but with the added complexity of the effects of the Stockholm Syndrome and it might be the latter which might be influencing her current statements more than the radicalisation.

I was pretty ambivalent on this until that post, now I know we shouldn't take her back. Stockholm Syndrome in this instance, REALLY?