[Politics] British IS Girl wanting to return to the UK

[Bakero]

It is actually hard to disagree with you, unless there was some mechanism in international law where going to war against a country could imply relinquishing citizenship of that nation. But no, this country will not be "shirking" anything. If she can't find somewhere else to go she will end up back here unfortunately. However she can have no complaints if she is mercilessly hounded wherever she goes, or God forbid somebody actually murders her or her child - and if it was a member of the family of Lee Rigby, or family of one of those poor kids at that Ariana Grande concert who did it, there would be many who would sympathise.

So maybe rather than talking about this country shirking it's responsibility (which it won't do if international law demands it), you should ask this woman not to shirk her own. And her responsibility is to f*ck off and at least try to find some country who won't mind having her.

I really hope no one would sympathise if someone murdered a baby FFS.

 

[Simster]

I really hope no one would sympathise if someone murderess baby FFS.

Some would. If I found out the parent of a murdered teenager at that concert had decided "an eye for an eye", I personally would be sympathetic that such a sad situation had come about. Obviously that does not mean I would advocate murdering a child, and I'd hope that most people would have understood that from my post.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It is actually hard to disagree with you, unless there was some mechanism in international law where going to war against a country could imply relinquishing citizenship of that nation. But no, this country will not be "shirking" anything. If she can't find somewhere else to go she will end up back here unfortunately. However she can have no complaints if she is mercilessly hounded wherever she goes, or God forbid somebody actually murders her or her child - and if it was a member of the family of Lee Rigby, or family of one of those poor kids at that Ariana Grande concert who did it, there would be many who would sympathise.

So maybe rather than talking about this country shirking it's responsibility (which it won't do if international law demands it), you should ask this woman not to shirk her own. And her responsibility is to f*ck off and find some country who won't mind having her.

and because no country will want her to take her, nor should have to take her, if, or rather when, she ends back up here, we arrest her and deal with her.

"As for her responsibility to **** off and find some country who won't mind having her" - As she won't be able to, again, that would be our shirking our responsibility as a country in the future, because when she gets back here whatever control orders are placed on her should dictate she isn't able to ever go abroad again at the risk of participating in further terrorist activities.

I'm not for a second advocating liberty and the chance of a normal life for Ms Begum, anymore than I'm not advocating the death penalty for her, but in the fight against terror and making the world a safer place she is The UK's responsibility. Reading The Times earlier and the further reports on this today, a Prevent official is quoted as saying she's 'too far gone' to be helped now.

That said though, if you've got a rabid dog, you deal with it yourself. You don't leave it out on the street for someone else to have deal with.

 

[marlowe]

I'm guessing this has already been mentioned, but just in case.
There is a precedent, from 2016:-

Tareena Shakil jailed for six years for joining IS

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35460697

A mother who took her toddler son to Syria has been jailed for six years for joining the so-called Islamic State.

Tareena Shakil, 26, is the first woman from the UK to return from the self-declared caliphate to be convicted of the offence.

Sentencing her, Mr Justice Inman said she had shown no remorse and had known her son's future would ultimately be "as an IS fighter".

He told Shakil: "You allowed him to be photographed next to an AK47."

'Abhorrent'
Shakil, a former health worker from Birmingham, but formerly of Burton-upon-Trent in Staffordshire, admitted travelling to Syria but denied joining IS and encouraging acts of terrorism through messages posted on Twitter.

Why did Tareena Shakil face this charge?

Passing sentence at Birmingham Crown Court, the judge said: "Most alarmingly you took your toddler son to Syria knowing how he would be used.

"You embraced your role in providing fighters of the future."

It's a precedent of sorts but the circumstances are not identical. It seems the Judge's decision regarding her sentence and possibly why she was prosecuted in the first place was because she took her toddler son out there and what she subjected him to which in effect was a form of neglect and abuse. And furthermore by doing so determining what his future role would be. She didn"t just make a choice for herself but imposed that choice on her son. Incidentally I'm surprised that the Judge's over riding concern regarding her actions was that her son would be used as a future fighter rather than him focusing on the current welfare and care of her son and the conditions which she subjected him to.

The difference with Shamima Begum is that she is wanting to bring an (as yet unborn) child back from there not take one there.

Of course it could be argued that by giving birth to children once she was there they were subjected to inhumane conditions (resulting in their deaths) and that they were predestined as potential IS fighters had the circumstances been more condusive and she had chosen to remain. But any allegations of child neglect or abuse to her children that died could not be considered in this country as any construed offence with regard to that did not happen here and nor were those children British citizens and critically they were the conditions they were already born into. The same applies to her as yet unborn child but with regard to that she is trying to actually remove it from that situation and those conditions notwithstanding her motivations and the prevailing circumstances which influenced her decision.

 

[GT49er]

I find it shocking how many people want to punish her even more, despite her age and despite everything she's already gone through. I find it quite barbaric - but I suppose the same people are likely to support the death penalty right?

Wrong. Stupid bit of mindless stereotyping, in fact probably the most stupid and despicable comment on tis thread. I don't want her back in the country = I support bringing back hanging? Geez, what a totally prattish thing to say.

Even the Daily Fail or The S*n (which I guess you probably despise) could come up with such drivel.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm guessing this has already been mentioned, but just in case.
There is a precedent, from 2016:-

Tareena Shakil jailed for six years for joining IS

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35460697

A mother who took her toddler son to Syria has been jailed for six years for joining the so-called Islamic State.

Tareena Shakil, 26, is the first woman from the UK to return from the self-declared caliphate to be convicted of the offence.

Sentencing her, Mr Justice Inman said she had shown no remorse and had known her son's future would ultimately be "as an IS fighter".

He told Shakil: "You allowed him to be photographed next to an AK47."

'Abhorrent'
Shakil, a former health worker from Birmingham, but formerly of Burton-upon-Trent in Staffordshire, admitted travelling to Syria but denied joining IS and encouraging acts of terrorism through messages posted on Twitter.

Why did Tareena Shakil face this charge?

Passing sentence at Birmingham Crown Court, the judge said: "Most alarmingly you took your toddler son to Syria knowing how he would be used.

"You embraced your role in providing fighters of the future."

This woman was aged 26 (how old was she when she left?) whereas a 15 year old girl would be treated as a youth.

There is also a security risk, not so much with the families and relatives of those affected by terrorism, but from the likes of the Football Lads Alliance, etc.

 

[Hastings gull]

and because no country will want her to take her, nor should have to take her, if, or rather when, she ends back up here, we arrest her and deal with her.

"As for her responsibility to **** off and find some country who won't mind having her" - As she won't be able to, again, that would be our shirking our responsibility as a country in the future, because when she gets back here whatever control orders are placed on her should dictate she isn't able to ever go abroad again at the risk of participating in further terrorist activities.

I'm not for a second advocating liberty and the chance of a normal life for Ms Begum, anymore than I'm not advocating the death penalty for her, but in the fight against terror and making the world a safer place she is The UK's responsibility. Reading The Times earlier and the further reports on this today, a Prevent official is quoted as saying she's 'too far gone' to be helped now.

That said though, if you've got a rabid dog, you deal with it yourself. You don't leave it out on the street for someone else to have deal with.

Unfortunate example, given that you don't advocate the death penalty -I think a rabid dog would be shot . .

 

[ManOfSussex]

Unfortunate example, given that you don't advocate the death penalty -I think a rabid dog would be shot . .

It would and I've seen it done. My point is though, which you can see even if you don't agree with it, if Ms Begum is beyond redemption in terms of her radicalisation she's still The UK's responsibility and shouldn't be left for someone else to have to deal with.

 

[Hastings gull]

I work alongside many Muslims and also have one as a good friend. I find some of the views on here towards them absolutely terrifying and reminds me of what my grandmother told me about her experiences in Germany just before the war.

Think I'll take a break from here for a while.

Probably just as well as you are over-reacting.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I'm annoyed like everyone else, but don't waste anymore of your energy when you find out she is back in this country, eventually housed and offered 24/7 protection, let's see?. I have lost faith in our system over this sort of thing.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'm annoyed like everyone else, but don't waste anymore of your energy when you find out she is back in this country, eventually housed and offered 24/7 protection, let's see?. I have lost faith in our system over this sort of thing.

I think this story has enough meat on the bones without going full Daily Mail.

Housed at her majesties pleasure and offered some protection from the guards.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think this story has enough meat on the bones without going full Daily Mail.

Housed at her majesties pleasure and offered some protection from the guards.

I'm not going DM, it's the type of thing that happens in this country. Like I said let's see.

 

[Bakero]

I'm not going DM, it's the type of thing that happens in this country. Like I said let's see.

What would you like to happen?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What would you like to happen?

I don't want her back in this country.

 

[Bakero]

I don't want her back in this country.

Which country should take her?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Which country should take her?

Well that's the problem isn't it.

 

[Bakero]

Well that's the problem isn't it.

Well, yes. Which is why I posed my original question. Like it or not, she's our problem.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Just another thought transpiring from those mentioning Ms Begum and her Dutch Jihadist 'husband' - For the purposes of obtaining residency, I had to get a certified copy of my marriage certificate from the British High Commission when living abroad. Along with their lack of diplomatic missions overseas, I'm not sure if the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria Caliphate issue such documentation for newly weds as is done elsewhere, but I'd hazard a guess if they do that The United Kingdom, The Kingdom of the Netherlands and every other country on the planet won't recognise or acknowledge it as being official.

 

[symyjym]

Really? I could ask every single person I’ve ever met in my life and I’m confident none have been impacted by terrorism. In short, you’re talking shite.

When two female Scandinavian backpackers get beheaded whilst camping in Morocco, it affects all of us you fool. Do they have to be friends or family before it becomes serious to you? You clearly have your own pro Islamic personal agenda and cannot see the wood for the trees.

Thanks for reminding me why I have you noted as ignore on this forum.

 

[symyjym]

I'm annoyed like everyone else, but don't waste anymore of your energy when you find out she is back in this country, eventually housed and offered 24/7 protection, let's see?. I have lost faith in our system over this sort of thing.

Exactly. We won't give Asia Bibi asylum in this country through fear of upsetting some Muslims, but we pander to the terror seekers.