British Airways 2 - 0 Unite

[herbicide]

...they're lucky to have a job. Does my head in!

This is part of the problem here. The working classes now think they are fortunate if they are allowed to work.

Wouldn't they be luckier if they didn't have to work?

 

[Easy 10]

While not disagreeing entirely, can you imagine having to take a 20-30% paycut? I know someone who is facing this at BA, and will have to sell their house and downsize. Sure in theory 'they still have a job' but until you are in that situation where such a paycut will mean such a lifestyle change its difficult to judge

My understanding is that its only the new BA recruits who are being taken on with McDonalds / Easyjet salaries - there is no pay cut for existing staff, and no redundencies.

This strike is about havnig their travel perks reinstated (which were removed from those who took strike action last time), maintaining the current levels of cabin crew staff on long haul, and maintaining current working practices such as the amount of "recovery time" allowed after a long haul flight before the next shift commences.

None of the proposals are any worse than how other airlines have operated for years. The crux of it seems to be that BA staff have had it very very good for a very very long time, and they don't like the idea of anything interfering with the comfortable, well-paid bubble they have existed in for so long.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

While not disagreeing entirely, can you imagine having to take a 20-30% paycut? I know someone who is facing this at BA, and will have to sell their house and downsize. Sure in theory 'they still have a job' but until you are in that situation where such a paycut will mean such a lifestyle change its difficult to judge

You will no doubt be aware that Gatwick is not affected.

Crews from Gatwick have already accepted the changes to working practices (14 instead of 15 on long haul,- same as KLM, Air France etc.. Pursers having to serve as well etc)

Heathrow Crew (esp some of those who have been there a long time) are well known as being pretty militant and wield considerable power. Gatwick crews can't stand them. There is also very little sympathy from baggage handlers, ground crew etc for the Heathrow Cabin Crew.

There are NO paycuts for Cabin Crew. (No rises either)

My understanding is that agreement has now been reached on the deal - except that UNITE want those members who went on strike last time to get their travel perks back. Walsh told them beforehand that they WOULD lose them. Can't see him backing down.

As far as the Legality of the Strike is concerned - whilst I am personally delighted the Strike is off - it does bring into question whether the Court is basically saying - There is no longer a right to withdraw your Labour in the UK.

On the other hand, UNITE, previous experience considered should have covered their bases, and crossed every i, and dotted every t.

The two 'joint' leaders (when does that ever work?) don't like each other and are apparantley not even talking to each other.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think any backing BA stewards had would have now gone, why do they think anyone in the public would support them while there is a chance that the ash cloud could come back and cause more delays.

 

[herbicide]

Personally, I don't care if all the BA Cabin staff die as long as I can get to Torremolinos in July with the family.

On the other hand, I cried when someone I have never met died in the Hillsborough disaster. In fact I come on here every year to post about how sad it was.

 

[sir danny cullip]

While not disagreeing entirely, can you imagine having to take a 20-30% paycut? I know someone who is facing this at BA, and will have to sell their house and downsize. Sure in theory 'they still have a job' but until you are in that situation where such a paycut will mean such a lifestyle change its difficult to judge

I didn't realise the pay cuts were so extreme and affecting people so severely. I had a quick look at the conditions etc when they first went on strike and it seemed the main issue was the reduction (by 1) of cabin crew on long haul flights and then after that the fact that discounted travel had been scrapped after the strike, haven't seen/heard any mention of such severe pay cuts.

Given that they are (by all accounts) by far the best paid cabin crew in the industry a cut doesn't seem unreasonable although if it's as severe as you suggest then seems very extreme.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I didn't realise the pay cuts were so extreme and affecting people so severely. I had a quick look at the conditions etc when they first went on strike and it seemed the main issue was the reduction (by 1) of cabin crew on long haul flights and then after that the fact that discounted travel had been scrapped after the strike, haven't seen/heard any mention of such severe pay cuts.

Given that they are (by all accounts) by far the best paid cabin crew in the industry a cut doesn't seem unreasonable although if it's as severe as you suggest then seems very extreme.

I think they deserved to lose there discounted travel after strike.

 

[sir danny cullip]

I think they deserved to lose there discounted travel after strike.

Bloody right! Especially if the strike is as unjustified as I originally thought it was although it appears there might be severe paycuts involved. Anyone have any more details of these? Seems strange they haven't been publicised.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Bloody right! Especially if the strike is as unjustified as I originally thought it was although it appears there might be severe paycuts involved. Anyone have any more details of these? Seems strange they haven't been publicised.

I would think if the pay cuts where that high it would be more than LHR crew striking?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Bloody right! Especially if the strike is as unjustified as I originally thought it was although it appears there might be severe paycuts involved. Anyone have any more details of these? Seems strange they haven't been publicised.

THRE ARE NO PAY CUTS FOR EXISTING CABIN CREW - ONLY NEW RECRUITS (Sorry to shout.)

 

[sir danny cullip]

THRE ARE NO PAY CUTS FOR EXISTING CABIN CREW - ONLY NEW RECRUITS (Sorry to shout.)

I didn't believe there was but a post above suggests that someone who currently works for BA seems to think they're having to take a 20/30% pay cut.

If they don't have to take a pay cut then they've got away bloody lightly and should run, actually spring, back to work and stop causing such disruption.

 

[Seagull73]

The point that seems to be being missed here is that BA is up shit creek without a paddle when it comes to it's business results, and as it is, the business will be unsustainable in the medium to longer term.

Any business that takes the kind of losses that BA is taking has to take measures to be able to cut costs, that's the reality of a private business, regardless of who's fault it is, or what got the business there in the first place.

If BA don't make these changes, and reduce costs in some way shape or form, then frankly our national carrier is potential going to go the same way is AlItalia or some of the other national airlines that have collapsed. Either that, or the government will be forced into a position where they are asked to bail them out - and we all know what that does for public sentiment.

As for the f***ing unions, well, they defy belief. Two old school scousers who can barely tell their arse from their elbow, believing that wield some sort of power over everything, and don't give a shit about the travelling public, only their own careers. Honestly, I am on BA's side on this one, because this tinpot union needs putting in it's place.

 

[sir danny cullip]

As for the f***ing unions, well, they defy belief. Two old school scousers who can barely tell their arse from their elbow, believing that wield some sort of power over everything, and don't give a shit about the travelling public, only their own careers. Honestly, I am on BA's side on this one, because this tinpot union needs putting in it's place.

Especially when it appears they can't hold a legal ballot, the 'main event' of any union!

 

[drew]

The point that seems to be being missed here is that BA is up shit creek without a paddle when it comes to it's business results, and as it is, the business will be unsustainable in the medium to longer term.

Any business that takes the kind of losses that BA is taking has to take measures to be able to cut costs, that's the reality of a private business, regardless of who's fault it is, or what got the business there in the first place.

If BA don't make these changes, and reduce costs in some way shape or form, then frankly our national carrier is potential going to go the same way is AlItalia or some of the other national airlines that have collapsed. Either that, or the government will be forced into a position where they are asked to bail them out - and we all know what that does for public sentiment.

As for the f***ing unions, well, they defy belief. Two old school scousers who can barely tell their arse from their elbow, believing that wield some sort of power over everything, and don't give a shit about the travelling public, only their own careers. Honestly, I am on BA's side on this one, because this tinpot union needs putting in it's place.

Are there any unions that you do not believe are tinpot then?

 

[Springal]

Sorry guys, seems I have been mis-lead ?

 

[arfer guinness]

I thought it was the staff on pre 1997 contracts that had the better conditions, not all staff so it's not necessarily fair to keep comparing them to all the other airlines. As far as I heard today, an agreement to the dispute was virtually agreed but the only stumbling block now was the question of staff flights which willie walsh withdrew from striking staff. Seems ludicrous that if there is an agreement then why not reinstate the staff flights, many of which are used by staff to get to their shifts at other airports.

Failure to do so would just reinforce some views that this is about Walsh trying to break the union before he moves on to take on BALPA.

I have a good friend who works for BA and tells me much the same thing. As I've said on previous posts, due to the nature of the cabin crew roster they are able to live in various parts of the country as well as Europe. Willie Walsh knows this, but then that's the man, it's all about an ego trip and wanting to break the union.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

BA staff appear to have been bloody spoilt in the past and should realise they're lucky to have a job.

was it Che Guvara that said (in Spanish) 'better to die on your feet than live on your knees'?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

There is a full page advert on the back of the Guardian today with a BA cabin crew bleating on about being bullied by the BA management. An own goal worse than Kalou's on Saturday.

 

[Rookie]

Love the fact that Unite can't follow simple procedure.

 

[tedebear]

Richard Branson and Virgin will be rubbing there hands with glee on the back of all this ineptitude...

Unite will sink BA, bet you all of the cabin crew would rather a job than none at all!