Britain and our place in world football

[Mellotron]

Lets be honest, we could have played the same old faces and defended like hell and maybe, luckily snuck into the quarter finals. Maybe.

We didn't. We played with a much younger squad, and we went out to attack. That, in my book, bodes well for the future. Yes we're a second tier nation on the world stage, we have been for decades. But I see this latest squad as a regrouping, new style of England team - quite different to those that have gone before. We're going dynamic and exciting. Are we intelligent enough on the ball? No. Do we have big names capable of scaring opponents? No. Do we have individual match winners? No. But these things, all of them, will come in time.

I'm actually really proud of England after this World Cup. I think for the first time in a long time we really have a platform on which to build. Bring on the Euros I say.

Oh and for the record, a GB squad would be amazing. Would love to see it happen one day - outside of the Olympics,

Completely agreed. Reaction after this exit was utterly ridiculous - seemed everyone had said they would dampen expectations but then forgot to do it. I think England and Italy punched themselves out by going so hell for leather in that first game.

 

[wardy wonder land]

success at WC's is a combo of 2 or more of the below, England miss out on all 3 three, but could have 2 of 3 in 4 years..........

a) Hard working team i.e usa, costa rica, algeria, germany etc

b) very gifted 1 / 2 players i.e Brazil, Argentinia, portugal

c) 4/5 "golden generation" players i.e. belguim, france

this WC, no standout team has all 3 like Spain for the last 6 years

culture, wages, tv, leagues, coaching, games, attitude all have a factoring on increasing or reducing the chance of getting a, b or c

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think England and Italy punched themselves out by going so hell for leather in that first game.

I think it was more to do with them both not being good enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Lets be honest, we could have played the same old faces and defended like hell and maybe, luckily snuck into the quarter finals. Maybe.

We didn't. We played with a much younger squad, and we went out to attack. That, in my book, bodes well for the future. Yes we're a second tier nation on the world stage, we have been for decades. But I see this latest squad as a regrouping, new style of England team - quite different to those that have gone before. We're going dynamic and exciting. Are we intelligent enough on the ball? No. Do we have big names capable of scaring opponents? No. Do we have individual match winners? No. But these things, all of them, will come in time.
I'm actually really proud of England after this World Cup. I think for the first time in a long time we really have a platform on which to build. Bring on the Euros I say.

Oh and for the record, a GB squad would be amazing. Would love to see it happen one day - outside of the Olympics,

But what evidence do you have to show me that "all of them, will come in time"? It's nothing but wishful thinking. Why do you think Wilshere etc will get better? If he is to become a player with the qualities you list then he has not got long before he is past his peak. A lot of other players seemingly have all these skills by his age. I just cannot see it.

 

[somerset]

Well quite. But as others have said, perhaps the height of their ambition is earning 25k a week playing for Chelsea reserves or whoever?

Exactly, lack of ambition beyond a full bank account.....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Completely agreed. Reaction after this exit was utterly ridiculous - seemed everyone had said they would dampen expectations but then forgot to do it.

I didnt.

 

[nicko31]

This round of 16 has served to depress me. Without overstating the problem, it seems clear that we belong in a second tier group of nations. We were unlucky with our group and just as unlucky with the order in which we played our games - I still maintain that Costa Rica got lucky by playing Uruguay without Suarez, then playing Italy after Italy's draining match with England in the jungle - but the fact remains that we are now just another 2nd tier footballing nation. We are no better than Chile, the US, Mexico and a bunch of others. And these days you really wouldn't put your mortgage on us beating the likes of either Australia or Algeria.

Scotland have it even worse. They haven't qualified for a major tournament in decades, and haven't threatened to do so. I know they are small nation, but Europe is littered with successful small nations (the Baltics, Scandinavia, central Europe) and Scotland were one once. As for Wales, don't even go there.

I know people in this country put their club before country, BUT isn't it the job of the FA to ensure this is possible without damaging the national team? Instead we've got a situation where we just let in any old wealthy ownership group (however dodgy) and they buy the best players from elsewhere. Where is the joined-up thinking?

Watching the USA last night beaten but not disgraced, served to depress me. Their league seems Bundesliga-lite to me. Costs are reigned in, yet they have provided some decent players to the WC (predominantly for their home nation USA, but with a smattering of others), and it has benefitted the US national team. Germany is the same on a larger scale. Who has really benefitted from the Premier League or the terribly run Scottish alternative? Not the England or Scotland national teams, that's for sure. The money hasn't fed downwards. We don't have enough coaches, our facilities are a disgrace in parts of the country. It's shameful.

Honestly, I think there is a case for the government intervention now. I don't think the FA, SFA or FAW are fit for purpose.

The government loves the PL, it brings in loads of foreign money, everything is about big business. They couldn't give a monkey's whether we do well at WC's. Aside of that we still should be sacking Hodson, he has failed to get the best out of the team (even if they are not world beaters)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly, lack of ambition beyond a full bank account.....

I remember Crouch said that he realised he has made it when that bloke who starred in The Wrestler spotted him in Florida and did his robot dance. Says it all really.

 

[Simster]

I think it was more to do with them both not being good enough.

I think there is merit in what [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] says (not least because I also said it ). The whole group was tight - every game was settled by one goal except the one between the top two sides.

 

[Wozza]

If we'd played Suarez-less Uruguay first we would have qualified, and maybe finished top... before being beaten in the next round.

 

[Brovion]

Lets be honest, we could have played the same old faces and defended like hell and maybe, luckily snuck into the quarter finals. Maybe.

We didn't. We played with a much younger squad, and we went out to attack. That, in my book, bodes well for the future. Yes we're a second tier nation on the world stage, we have been for decades. But I see this latest squad as a regrouping, new style of England team - quite different to those that have gone before. We're going dynamic and exciting. Are we intelligent enough on the ball? No. Do we have big names capable of scaring opponents? No. Do we have individual match winners? No. But these things, all of them, will come in time.

I'm actually really proud of England after this World Cup. I think for the first time in a long time we really have a platform on which to build. Bring on the Euros I say.

Oh and for the record, a GB squad would be amazing. Would love to see it happen one day - outside of the Olympics,

I completely, totally and 100% agree with everything you've said .... except the last sentence with which I violently disagree! I can just about stand to be in the same political union as the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, all of us supporting the same football team would be too much.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think there is merit in what [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] says (not least because I also said it ). The whole group was tight - every game was settled by one goal except the one between the top two sides.

It was tight but I do not feel it was a particularly strong group.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Can't help but feel that some of our younger talents would benefit immensely by being taken out of their comfort zones and spending a couple of seasons playing abroad. Reckon they'd soak up the experience and come back more rounded players and human beings, with maybe a deeper desire to succeed.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If we'd played Suarez-less Uruguay first we would have qualified, and maybe finished top... before being beaten in the next round.

It's a pain when opponents pick their best players.

 

[Wozza]

It's a pain when opponents pick their best players.

It was a reference to the order of matches, really. We had our toughest match first.

 

[Brovion]

Well quite. But as others have said, perhaps the height of their ambition is earning 25k a week playing for Chelsea reserves or whoever?

Whilst I have not watched a huge amount of this World Cup, it is obvious to me that many nations out there are trying their hardest to do as well as they can. Am not convinced that this is the case nowadays with England. As much as I dislike Mr Beckham and his overrated footballing skills, he did at least give the impression of wanting to win and achieve something.

No, I really don't think you can say that we got knocked out because the players "didn't try". There's a lot of things wrong with the English team but lack of effort isn't one of them. In the past people (not accusing you) have blamed lack of effort/passion/committment as the reason for our defeats when they haven't been able to accept that Johnny Foreigner has simply been better.

Even if the players are/were totally driven by personal greed the World Cup is still a good shop window. For the younger players who haven't reached their earning potential it's a good chance to impress future employers (or to persuade their current ones to give them a raise). And even established players can use it as a chance to give people a nudge and remind them how they became established internationals in the first place.

 

[Mellotron]

I think there is merit in what [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] says (not least because I also said it ). The whole group was tight - every game was settled by one goal except the one between the top two sides.

Quite. It wasn't like 2010 at all. I genuinely hadn't read you saying it [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]

 

[Albumen]

Spain, Portugal and England were by far the worst performers of the World Cup, and we had the weaker group of the three. I watched Algeria last night and was pleased we were spared the beating we'd had got if they were in the group. Most teams look like they enjoy playing out there, we are tense and lack technical ability, and tactics.
We're ruddy awful so let's not make excuses for going out, we were BOTToM of the group for a reason, picking up one point off a team that was already through.

 

[Mellotron]

Spain, Portugal and England were by far the worst performers of the World Cup, and we had the weaker group of the three. I watched Algeria last night and was pleased we were spared the beating we'd had got if they were in the group. Most teams look like they enjoy playing out there, we are tense and lack technical ability, and tactics.
We're ruddy awful so let's not make excuses for going out, we were BOTToM of the group for a reason, picking up one point off a team that was already through.

I'm sorry but that's really bollocks. Uruguay was our only proper "poor" performance and even then we came close to getting a result. We lost by ONE goal, one moment in each of those 2 games, it was very fine margins. We played far better football than in 2012 or 2010.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spain, Portugal and England were by far the worst performers of the World Cup, and we had the weaker group of the three. I watched Algeria last night and was pleased we were spared the beating we'd had got if they were in the group. Most teams look like they enjoy playing out there, we are tense and lack technical ability, and tactics.
We're ruddy awful so let's not make excuses for going out, we were BOTToM of the group for a reason, picking up one point off a team that was already through.

This.