Brilliant stuff from David Cameron today

[Silk]

Tedious and patronising how people (on all sides of the debate) claim that if someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint they must somehow be a fool. Perhaps the gullible one's are those that can never see past their own entrenched political stance and their own prejudices.

This latest poll is probably a reflection of the two leader's speeches. We all know that the most important issues facing the country is the economy. One leader didn't even mention it. Milliband was negative and divisive whilst Cameron was positive and confident. The poll is a snapshot of that moment. Tomorrow something will turn the table and thus the polls.

But because people don't agree with you they are not gullible!

I didn't make that claim. I claimed they were gullible based on his previous track record of lying to the public, and I clearly stated that. Miliband is a liar too, in all probability.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

According to the poll in question Cameron hasn't got enough of the share to form a majority Govt. at the moment.

I'll wager that the next Govt. is likely to be another Coalition, and I am expecting Lib Dems to continue to be the ' Kingmakers'. Teresa May's attempts to rile Nick Clegg won't encourage the Liberals to jump into bed with the Conservatives again however - they are deeply aware of how it has harmed their credibility and their members utterly hate the concept of supporting Conservative policy anyway. If UKIP split Labour and Conservative votes, then both parties are in deep trouble, without LibDem support. If Nick Clegg joins the Conservatives in Govt again, he'll lose the LibDem leadership, of that I'm certain. Who'll replace him is anyones guess.

 

[dibsy]

Here’s my twopenneth worth.

Signed on in the 80s in Thatchers Britain and could never see me even contemplating voting Tory but I look around me now and I couldn’t possibly vote Milliband, I’ve always voted LibDem but that is no longer an option with Clegg being the leader.

So who do I vote for? I think :

Benefit cuts – People seem to have one extreme or the other, either everyone on benefits is destitute and needs more money or a scrounger and needs less money. Obviously there are some people who need their benefits and support. And obviously these people should be helped and supported. BUT I know many people who receive tax credits that frankly don’t need them. My partner and I both work and only receive child benefit and we just manage but life is hectic. Many a single mother we know has more money than us, and not only the money but the time to leisurely shop and spend, often having lunches and breakfasts together. They say to me ‘I could work more hours but it would cost me’. It frankly winds me up something rotten and I want their tax credits stopped.

Tax breaks for the better off – winds me up – wtf.

Bankers and tax avoiders etc – get after the buggers.

Wages – put up the minimum wage and get rid of tax credits.

Tuition fees - People should pay for higher education. Education is compulsory until a certain age, then if you decide to go to university or do a vocational course you pay for it. We are lucky enough to have a system set up where everyone has the same equality of opportunity through student loans. Just because someone wants to better themselves why should people that work pay for that? Hell, I’d like to learn to play the piano but I don’t expect everyone else to pay for it!

None of them cover all my opinions so who should I vote for? Raving monster is looking fave.

Sigh

 

[Buzzer]

None of them cover all my opinions so who should I vote for?

Maybe think about voting for a candidate you trust rather than their party politics. I'm no supporter of Green Party policies at all, but I think I'm going for Caroline Lucas on the basis that I'd rather vote for someone I trust to follow their conscience rather than follow the money or self-interest.

 

[Silk]

Here’s my twopenneth worth.

Signed on in the 80s in Thatchers Britain and could never see me even contemplating voting Tory but I look around me now and I couldn’t possibly vote Milliband, I’ve always voted LibDem but that is no longer an option with Clegg being the leader.

So who do I vote for? I think :

Benefit cuts – People seem to have one extreme or the other, either everyone on benefits is destitute and needs more money or a scrounger and needs less money. Obviously there are some people who need their benefits and support. And obviously these people should be helped and supported. BUT I know many people who receive tax credits that frankly don’t need them. My partner and I both work and only receive child benefit and we just manage but life is hectic. Many a single mother we know has more money than us, and not only the money but the time to leisurely shop and spend, often having lunches and breakfasts together. They say to me ‘I could work more hours but it would cost me’. It frankly winds me up something rotten and I want their tax credits stopped.

Tax breaks for the better off – winds me up – wtf.

Bankers and tax avoiders etc – get after the buggers.

Wages – put up the minimum wage and get rid of tax credits.

Tuition fees - People should pay for higher education. Education is compulsory until a certain age, then if you decide to go to university or do a vocational course you pay for it. We are lucky enough to have a system set up where everyone has the same equality of opportunity through student loans. Just because someone wants to better themselves why should people that work pay for that? Hell, I’d like to learn to play the piano but I don’t expect everyone else to pay for it!

None of them cover all my opinions so who should I vote for? Raving monster is looking fave.

Sigh

Not bad, but I don't think you quite understand how tax credits work. People working part time who cannot work more hours, and are disabled with children, for example, would be utterly f*#£ed by your "raise the minimum wage and abolish tax credits" plan, unless you wanted to raise the minimum wage by one heck of a lot.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Here’s my twopenneth worth.

Signed on in the 80s in Thatchers Britain and could never see me even contemplating voting Tory but I look around me now and I couldn’t possibly vote Milliband, I’ve always voted LibDem but that is no longer an option with Clegg being the leader.

So who do I vote for? I think :

Benefit cuts – People seem to have one extreme or the other, either everyone on benefits is destitute and needs more money or a scrounger and needs less money. Obviously there are some people who need their benefits and support. And obviously these people should be helped and supported. BUT I know many people who receive tax credits that frankly don’t need them. My partner and I both work and only receive child benefit and we just manage but life is hectic. Many a single mother we know has more money than us, and not only the money but the time to leisurely shop and spend, often having lunches and breakfasts together. They say to me ‘I could work more hours but it would cost me’. It frankly winds me up something rotten and I want their tax credits stopped.

Tax breaks for the better off – winds me up – wtf.

Bankers and tax avoiders etc – get after the buggers.

Wages – put up the minimum wage and get rid of tax credits.

Tuition fees - People should pay for higher education. Education is compulsory until a certain age, then if you decide to go to university or do a vocational course you pay for it. We are lucky enough to have a system set up where everyone has the same equality of opportunity through student loans. Just because someone wants to better themselves why should people that work pay for that? Hell, I’d like to learn to play the piano but I don’t expect everyone else to pay for it!

None of them cover all my opinions so who should I vote for? Raving monster is looking fave.

Sigh

Sounds like Tory for you. Would lower the benefit cap meaning less benefits and also freeze benefits. Raising the personal allowance will take more people out of tax credit range. Raising the 40p threshold is a tax cut but it's only putting it back to what it was under Gordon Brown.

 

[keaton]

Tedious and patronising how people (on all sides of the debate) claim that if someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint they must somehow be a fool. Perhaps the gullible one's are those that can never see past their own entrenched political stance and their own prejudices.

This latest poll is probably a reflection of the two leader's speeches. We all know that the most important issues facing the country is the economy. One leader didn't even mention it. Milliband was negative and divisive whilst Cameron was positive and confident. The poll is a snapshot of that moment. Tomorrow something will turn the table and thus the polls.

But because people don't agree with you they are not gullible!

Not really. We have lots of proof of that Cameron doesn't keep pre-election promises, we don't as yet know that Milliband won't.

 

[HH Brighton]

Tedious and patronising how people (on all sides of the debate) claim that if someone doesn't agree with their viewpoint they must somehow be a fool. Perhaps the gullible one's are those that can never see past their own entrenched political stance and their own prejudices.

This latest poll is probably a reflection of the two leader's speeches. We all know that the most important issues facing the country is the economy. One leader didn't even mention it. Milliband was negative and divisive whilst Cameron was positive and confident. The poll is a snapshot of that moment. Tomorrow something will turn the table and thus the polls.

But because people don't agree with you they are not gullible!

Not agreeing with someone doesn't' make you gullible but believing someone who has a terrible history of broken election pledges does make you gullible:

• Child benefit - Said it would not be cut for lower wage earners. Beggers belief that two parents each earning about £40,000 – with a combined household income of £80,000 – can continue to receive the cash, while a single parent on £43,000 was stripped of the handout. "I'm not going to flannel you, I'm going to give it to you straight. I like the child benefit, I wouldn't change child benefit, I wouldn't means-test it, I don't think that is a good idea."........David Cameron
• GP's - Promised 5000 new GP's which has not been done and now promising it again in latest speach...unbelievble.
• Andy Coulson - finally got rid of Andy Coulson after he became embroiled in phone hacking story
• Pensioners Winter Fuel Allowance - saying he would not cut pensioners winter fuel allowance - then did
• NHS - "There will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS"......David Cameron
• Knife Crime - said in opposition that anyone caught carrying a knife could expect a jail term - now scrapped.
• Education - said they would not scrap Educational Maintenance Allowance - then did.
• National Insurance contributions - "We'll scrap the Gordon Brown's jobs tax" - did for employers but employees contributions have risen 1%
• Scrapped pledge for public to be allowed to recall under-performing MP
• Housing benefit - forced to drop plans to impose a 10 per cent cut in housing benefit on the long-term unemployed after public outcry.
• Fuel Poverty - government to dropedp its commitment to end fuel poverty by 2016.

By defintion of gullible you would be if you believed anything David Cameron said.

 

[dibsy]

Not bad, but I don't think you quite understand how tax credits work. People working part time who cannot work more hours, and are disabled with children, for example, would be utterly f*#£ed by your "raise the minimum wage and abolish tax credits" plan, unless you wanted to raise the minimum wage by one heck of a lot.

Exactly - They are the kind of people who clearly need the support - and could be given more support if the benefits were more targeted - seriously - I know lots of people that admit the government just keeps throwing money at them! It needs to be cleverer. I don't want to see deserving people left to suffer, but I don't want to see people saying it's not worth me taking a job as I am better off on benefits.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If my dad had promised to take me to Disneyland, then lost his job, I wouldn't be calling him a kvnt for not taking me to Disneyland.

Therefore, I think the electorate should cut the coalition some slack, as there simply wasn't any money left to do anything. That said, if the Tories and Lib Dems could wind the clock back 5 years I think the one thing they'd do differently would be to tone down the promises / commitments and amend them to aims / aspirations.

I hope that the next election campaign will be a lot more grown-up and realistic. On the one hand a coalition is likely so they can't slag each other off mercilessly, but on the other there's so much at stake for the leaders and their parties that it is bound to be an edgy campaign.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Therefore, I think the electorate should cut the coalition some slack, as there simply wasn't any money left to do anything. That said, if the Tories and Lib Dems could wind the clock back 5 years I think the one thing they'd do differently would be to tone down the promises / commitments and amend them to aims / aspirations.
.

They'd do nothing of the sort - the false promises achieved their purpose - won them the election.

I hope that the next election campaign will be a lot more grown-up and realistic.

Have you read the opening post in this thread!?

 

[Silk]

If my dad had promised to take me to Disneyland, then lost his job, I wouldn't be calling him a kvnt for not taking me to Disneyland.

Therefore, I think the electorate should cut the coalition some slack, as there simply wasn't any money left to do anything. That said, if the Tories and Lib Dems could wind the clock back 5 years I think the one thing they'd do differently would be to tone down the promises / commitments and amend them to aims / aspirations.

I hope that the next election campaign will be a lot more grown-up and realistic. On the one hand a coalition is likely so they can't slag each other off mercilessly, but on the other there's so much at stake for the leaders and their parties that it is bound to be an edgy campaign.

Are you saying the coalition didn't know there was a deficit until they got into power? Because that's the only way your analogy would work. And it's clearly not true.

 

[keaton]

If my dad had promised to take me to Disneyland, then lost his job, I wouldn't be calling him a kvnt for not taking me to Disneyland.

Therefore, I think the electorate should cut the coalition some slack, as there simply wasn't any money left to do anything. That said, if the Tories and Lib Dems could wind the clock back 5 years I think the one thing they'd do differently would be to tone down the promises / commitments and amend them to aims / aspirations.

I hope that the next election campaign will be a lot more grown-up and realistic. On the one hand a coalition is likely so they can't slag each other off mercilessly, but on the other there's so much at stake for the leaders and their parties that it is bound to be an edgy campaign.

Bearing in mind they've spent the last few years ignoring or wilfully misinterpreting official statistics there's nothing to say they won't do exactly the same if they win the next election

 

[drew]

If my dad had promised to take me to Disneyland, then lost his job, I wouldn't be calling him a kvnt for not taking me to Disneyland.

Therefore, I think the electorate should cut the coalition some slack, as there simply wasn't any money left to do anything. That said, if the Tories and Lib Dems could wind the clock back 5 years I think the one thing they'd do differently would be to tone down the promises / commitments and amend them to aims / aspirations.

I hope that the next election campaign will be a lot more grown-up and realistic. On the one hand a coalition is likely so they can't slag each other off mercilessly, but on the other there's so much at stake for the leaders and their parties that it is bound to be an edgy campaign.

Is this the same as putting your fingers in your ears and shouting la la la la la la at the top of your voice. There has never been a grown up election in my lifetime (voting since 1983) and will never be when the ends justifies the means.

 

[Silk]

Not agreeing with someone doesn't' make you gullible but believing someone who has a terrible history of broken election pledges does make you gullible:

• Child benefit - Said it would not be cut for lower wage earners. Beggers belief that two parents each earning about £40,000 – with a combined household income of £80,000 – can continue to receive the cash, while a single parent on £43,000 was stripped of the handout. "I'm not going to flannel you, I'm going to give it to you straight. I like the child benefit, I wouldn't change child benefit, I wouldn't means-test it, I don't think that is a good idea."........David Cameron
• GP's - Promised 5000 new GP's which has not been done and now promising it again in latest speach...unbelievble.
• Andy Coulson - finally got rid of Andy Coulson after he became embroiled in phone hacking story
• Pensioners Winter Fuel Allowance - saying he would not cut pensioners winter fuel allowance - then did
• NHS - "There will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS"......David Cameron
• Knife Crime - said in opposition that anyone caught carrying a knife could expect a jail term - now scrapped.
• Education - said they would not scrap Educational Maintenance Allowance - then did.
• National Insurance contributions - "We'll scrap the Gordon Brown's jobs tax" - did for employers but employees contributions have risen 1%
• Scrapped pledge for public to be allowed to recall under-performing MP
• Housing benefit - forced to drop plans to impose a 10 per cent cut in housing benefit on the long-term unemployed after public outcry.
• Fuel Poverty - government to dropedp its commitment to end fuel poverty by 2016.

By defintion of gullible you would be if you believed anything David Cameron said.

And the rest. On the subject of the NHS, not only did he break his promise about reorganisations, but he is privatising it, and is apparently prepared to use his dead son to shut down debate about it. In my book that makes him an absolute sh1theel. No wonder his wife was crying.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Are you saying the coalition didn't know there was a deficit until they got into power? Because that's the only way your analogy would work. And it's clearly not true.

I genuinely believe that both parties in this coalition underestimated the economic shit we were in, which is why there are broken promises left, right and centre.

These people are politicians, they are not financiers or economists.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I genuinely believe that both parties in this coalition underestimated the economic shit we were in, which is why there are broken promises left, right and centre.

These people are politicians, they are not financiers or economists.

So your defence of the government's pre-election lies, is that they (including their chosen shadow chancellor, and finance ministers) don't understand economics!?

 

[beorhthelm]

Taken from the BBC website:-

Rewarding people for hard work - raising the national wage to halve the number of people on low pay
Tackling the cost of living crisis to make sure wages increased with economic growth
Creating a million jobs in green industries - helping to tackle global climate change
Ensuring companies who want government contracts will provide apprenticeships
Building more homes and making sure 400,000 first-time buyers get on the property ladder each year
Saving the NHS and using the proceeds of a mansion tax on homes above £2m and tax on tobacco firms to pay for it

no bribes? no, but apart from the last one, they are all vague, grandiose, undeliverable targets. they are not policies. i want to know how they intend to deliver even one of those things. they are bollocks. the first one is just mirrors, the second a sound bite.

the third is not in the gift of government - what is a "green job" and on earth says there are a million to be created (and how many migrarant workers are we going to bring in to fill that many jobs?). the forth would lock out small firms from government contracts, just at a time when all parties are understanding the small businesses are the engine of growth in the economy. and how does this work in industries where apprenticships dont work?

finally we have the coup de grace, a target that would require 2-3 times increase in house building. how will non-first time buyers be addressed? and are there even 400k FTB coming to the market every year? aside from those questions, how will this be delivered? i've already picked holes at this earlier, we need wholesale reform of planning to even look at this, which would have massive resistance from all parties, so what are the policies to support this?

so Miliband has one single workable policy from his conference going into an election. and that will be snookered out as soon as the tobacco companies re-domicile to Ireland or Luxemburg.

 

[GT49er]

So your defence of the government's pre-election lies, is that they (including their chosen shadow chancellor, and finance ministers) don't understand economics!?

That would appear to be about right.....whenever I watch 'Yes, Prime Minister' I think, yes, they would do a better job!

 

[drew]

no bribes? no, but apart from the last one, they are all vague, grandiose, undeliverable targets. they are not policies. i want to know how they intend to deliver even one of those things. they are bollocks. the first one is just mirrors, the second a sound bite.

the third is not in the gift of government - what is a "green job" and on earth says there are a million to be created (and how many migrarant workers are we going to bring in to fill that many jobs?). the forth would lock out small firms from government contracts, just at a time when all parties are understanding the small businesses are the engine of growth in the economy. and how does this work in industries where apprenticships dont work?

finally we have the coup de grace, a target that would require 2-3 times increase in house building. how will non-first time buyers be addressed? and are there even 400k FTB coming to the market every year? aside from those questions, how will this be delivered? i've already picked holes at this earlier, we need wholesale reform of planning to even look at this, which would have massive resistance from all parties, so what are the policies to support this?

so Miliband has one single workable policy from his conference going into an election. and that will be snookered out as soon as the tobacco companies re-domicile to Ireland or Luxemburg.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you in that they are, in the main, just aspirations. That doesn't change the fact that the Tory supporters are still wetting themselves over all this extra money that they think they are going to get without realising there is no money in the pot to pay for it!