Brilliant speech about gay marriage in the NZ parliament

[dingodan]

What about non-religious people? Can they get married or do they also have a civil partnership?

It's really up to the priest who is being asked to marry them. Traditionally a priest would want to know that the couple being married are committed to their faith, although I expect today they care less about that, as long as they pay the fee.

 

[Frutos]

Forcing churches to marry gay couples

No-one will be forced to carry out gay marriages, they will simply be available for those groups/organisations who do wish to offer them.

 

[Bean]

What benefits would a gay couple get from being married that they wouldn't from being in a civil partnership? Or is it just a moral/social/status thing?

Nothing really. In essence, gay couples don't like the fact that they can't be legally married just like a man and a woman can - so much so that they want to associate themselves to an institution which doesn't actually agree with gay marriage.

 

[Triggaaar]

Nice speach.

Marriage was a sacrament of the church last time I checked.

I'm married, and I didn't go to church Marriage doesn't have to be a religious ceremony.

In essence, gay couples don't like the fact that they can't be legally married just like a man and a woman can - so much so that they want to associate themselves to an institution which doesn't actually agree with gay marriage.

Not at all. It's possible to be gay and believe in god, and believe that god would support gay marriage. Just because some people in the church don't agree doesn't mean you can't believe that.

 

[Bean]

Nice speach.

I'm married, and I didn't go to church Marriage doesn't have to be a religious ceremony.

Not at all. It's possible to be gay and believe in god, and believe that god would support gay marriage. Just because some people in the church don't agree doesn't mean you can't believe that.

I really don't see how you it is possible to be gay and believe in God. You're saying that you're Catholic, but you don't agree with what the Church teaches. Then you must think the Church is wrong - so why be a Catholic?

Real faith is in Jesus, but if you don't do what he says, then you don't really have faith in him. What you do have faith in is what you want, in this instance gay marriage, and then you expect that God will agree with that?

 

[Triggaaar]

You're saying that you're Catholic, but you don't agree with what the Church teaches.

Perhaps you mean Christian, not Catholic? No, I'm not a Catholic.

Then you must think the Church is wrong - so why be a Catholic?

A very large percentage of people that believe there is a god, do not believe in everything the Church preaches. In fact, different vicars preach different things, as they don't all agree with each other (some don't believe in evolution, but many do).

Real faith is in Jesus, but if you don't do what he says, then you don't really have faith in him.

Jesus is dead, so he doesn't say anything does he.

What you do have faith in is what you want, in this instance gay marriage, and then you expect that God will agree with that?

Er, no. People have different beliefs. Some people will believe that god is against homosexuality. Others will think god is all for it, and loves a good bum. As you say, some will conveniently believe god approves of their lifestyle, but others will believe it without choice (eg, if you truly believe in god, you can't choose not to).

 

[BadFish]

So, let gays have Civil Partnerships, with all of the legal/civil benefits of Marriage, and let the Church define it's Marriage Ceremony and the sacrament of Marriage which it provides, as it sees fit.

It seems to me that the activists on this issue want homosexuals to have the Marriage ceremony and the sacrament, and anything less would be argued to be homophobic.

Does this mean my brother and his wife (female) would not be married but in a civil partnership as there was no religious aspect to their wedding.

 

[BadFish]

No actually you are wrong. It is not illegal for a neice/nephew to have a relationship with an aunt/uncle just illegal for them to marry. My question, which by the way no one will answer, especially my local MP, is do you think they should be allowed to marry? Where do you personally draw the line? If you say no a neice can't marry her aunty then you are surely discriminating against two people who maybe wish to get married. Personally my line is one man and one woman.

I can't say I am that surprised that no one will answer your question.

 

[BadFish]

We already have civil partnerships, which (I believe?) provide the exact same legal recognition as a Marriage. Likewise something called Marriage which took place somewhere that wasn't religious I'd have not problem with. Personally I really cannot understand why people feel the need to have their relationship confirmed by a religion, because that is essentially what these laws (in the UK) involve is it not? Forcing churches to marry gay couples doesn't sit right with me not just because I DO believe it should be the choice of the church who it marries, but also because I don't understand why a gay couple would want to be associated with an institution which is and will remain incredibly homophobic.

Not quite the same according to this article

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/seven-ways-civil-partnership-isnt-same-marriage250113

 

[BadFish]

It's really up to the priest who is being asked to marry them. Traditionally a priest would want to know that the couple being married are committed to their faith, although I expect today they care less about that, as long as they pay the fee.

Kind of contradicts your previous post about the sanctity of marriage.

Lets face it marriage has little to do with religion in this day and age, there are many many people who only step into a church to get married or buried or to watch others do the same.