[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Nottingham Forest *** Official Match Thread ***

[Seasider78]

For anyone trying to delude themselves this is a recent phenomenon

From the BBC
Since Brighton's first Premier League season in 2017-18, they have failed to score in more games (72) and played out more goalless draws (23) than any other side in the competition.

As someone pointed out to me this morning that is nearly two seasons worth of not scoring in games

The only surprising thing is we all still seem to be surprised

 

[sydney]

Wonder if we're allowed to say that we need a striker yet?

we've been saying it for 5 years .....but carry on wondering .... it now appears we have a manager who's shitting himself about exploring options against a team that have been absolute dog shyte up until now and whom we could not take the game from ....Albion mojo right now 3/10

 

[Tommy11]

What a brilliant post.

Potter is our best manager ever (by a margin) and is only equaled or matched by Pep and Klopp. If you can’t recognise that, you really need a lot of help with your football analysis.

But he is gone. He is dead to us.

There is no way in the world that Bloom could have got us a manager on Potter’s level. It’s just not possible. But, what we do have in De Zerbi is astonishing potential. It’s time for the club to back him in the transfer market this winter. We are still stuffed full of players who are wonderful at passing, who have outstanding tactical awareness but can’t hit a barn with a banjo when shooting (March & Lallana etc).

It’s time for the club to invest in some proper goal scorers in January. Yes, I don’t want to spend more than £20m on a player but we simply need to replenish our squad with players who know how to score. Currently, it’s only Trossard who seems to have the ability to get a shot on target. It’s the players fault and this needs to change!

Your deluded, or have only been supporting the club a few years. No Potter is not the best manager ever, for god sake calm down. This is the same man, who every year, went on dismal runs without a win, not a goal and to top of all - starts having a go at the fans and giving us history lessons. Our best managers are the ones who got Potter the privilege of managing our club in the PL - Steve Gritt, Micky Adams, Steve Coppell, Gus and Chris Hughton to name a few - all miles ahead of Potter.

 

[Icy Gull]

According to BBC sport, RDZ is the first Albion manager since Mike Bailey to have failed to win in his first four games.

Time to panic Mr Mainwaring?

 

[Tommy11]

According to BBC sport, RDZ is the first Albion manager since Mike Bailey to have failed to win in his first four games.

Time to panic Mr Mainwaring?

well no, as we finished mid table under Bailey

 

[Justice]

Memo to Tony - sign a 33 year old on nearly 200k per week. That'll sort it.

Zzz

 

[wehatepalace]

Yes i did, thought some of the passing and movement was outstanding yes sometimes it was slow but then again is Brighton and Hove Albion Not Your Man City's Liverpool's Arsen

Yes i did, thought some of the passing and movement was outstanding yes sometimes it was slow but then again is Brighton and Hove Albion Not Your Man City's Liverpool's Arsenal's

Absolutely my point, fantastic passing, immense amounts of possession, but no end product, if that’s what you go to watch football for, then absolutely be overjoyed by it, I personally would prefer to see some goals and us win a game and push on from the fantastic start to the season!
As I said “all huff and no puff” against a very poor bottom of the table side, isn’t what I’d call an entertaining night out.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The key moment in the match was when Solly jinked down the right in the second half and played the ball across the 6 yard box .... to nobody.

Someone with the movement or intelligence of a striker would have got themselves into position and side footed it in. If you don't think Welbeck should be replaced because he's not missing sitters, look at the chances he's not getting, just because he's stuck on his heels in those situations. It's clearly not all on him, but as sole striker it's primarily his job to be getting in those positions.

He's a fine link up player and I think all his best career work has been out on the left wing, which is how I think we should be looking at him. But he's never been a good striker. A team can sometimes justify a player like that if the players around him are contributing. But Heskey had an Owen. Welbeck has Solly, and Lallana.

This is why we need to rethink what we're doing up front. With that personnel, nothing will miraculously click into place.

 

[Justice]

It's interesting that now Potter is managing a squad that cost approximately £1bn and individually earn over £150k pw each, that he's winning more games?
Is that really interesting?

The point was more he has a goal scorer they create roughly the same amount of chances as we did under him. Yes obviously they have better players all round but they weren’t performing before GP took over.

 

[Justice]

I can't believe people still think it's the strikers that are the problem.

You always assume that the chances we make will fall to this striker, who will then always convert them.

I think Welbeck had two chances yesterday.
Neither of them clear cut.

If you want to play with an out and out striker, that the rest of the team are working to make chances for, then you have to change the way we play.
It isn't as simple as just sign a striker and then we can suddenly beat a low block.
In fact it's probably less likely.

I have to disagree Brentford Toney was the difference they didn’t create chance after chance one moment of quality and clever play for the pen.

 

[Springal]

Only if you can name one that won’t break our wage structure, has a record at this level and costs 30 million or less

“not my job” won’t cut it

It’s amazing in 10 years the club have convinced so many people that the strikers we have is the absolute best we can manage.

Other clubs who create less chances and finish lower in the table than us manage to find goal scorers who are at least comparable to what we have had

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I have to disagree Brentford Toney was the difference they didn’t create chance after chance one moment of quality and clever play for the pen.

Yeah but we are currently above Brentford and finished above them last season.
So our way would seem to be better.

The assumption that if we have Toney in our team we will suddenly increase our results, isn't provable.
We struggle to create good chances against teams playing a low block.

How many teams play a low block against Brentford?
How many goals does Toney score against a low block?

Teams that can overcome Low blocks are generally full of £50m+ players on more than £150k pw.
It isn't just about the quality of one player in the team.

 

[Hugo Rune]

You’re deluded, or have only been supporting the club a few years. No Potter is not the best manager ever, for god sake calm down. This is the same man, who every year, went on dismal runs without a win, not a goal and to top of all - starts having a go at the fans and giving us history lessons. Our best managers are the ones who got Potter the privilege of managing our club in the PL - Steve Gritt, Micky Adams, Steve Coppell, Gus and Chris Hughton to name a few - all miles ahead of Potter.

Micky Adams? Stop it silly! You’ve just proved that you are the deluded one, not me you nutter!

Potter got us to our highest position EVER playing our best football EVER. Remove the emotion of him ****ing off and well and truly stuffing us and you’re left with those pure, cold facts.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Premier League Stats
Ivan Toney - Played 45 - Shots - 115 - Big chances missed 11 - Shooting accuracy 35%
Solly March - Played 152 - Shots -156 - Big chances missed 11 - Shooting Accuracy 32%

I appreciate that Solly doesn't score enough, and the tally of 20 - 4 goals is all most of us want to think about.
But the idea £30m strikers are clinical, is far from the truth.

 

[Tommy11]

Micky Adams? Stop it silly! You’ve just proved that you are the deluded one, not me you nutter!

Potter got us to our highest position EVER playing our best football EVER. Remove the emotion of him ****ing off and well and truly stuffing us and you’re left with those pure, cold facts.

Micky got us out of Division 4 mate, which we have not returned too - after being 23rd for two years on the bounce. Amazing achievement. Your Wikipedia stats are doing you no favors mate - yes we finished 9th - we played some nice football ( if fannying about with it is your thing) but that does not make him the greatest manager in Albion History - absolutely not!

 

[Mustafa II]

Another strong performance.

Think we can be reassurred that our performance levels remain high under De Zerbi, but of course concerned by the familiar high XG/lack of goals.

De Zerbi, like Potter did at the very end, will need to find a way around this.

Fans really need to accept that this is what our season is going to look like, during this transitional stage. It's going to be a season of mixed/poor results. We need to collectively accept this, and get behind the new manager and the team.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Premier League Stats
Ivan Toney - Played 45 - Shots - 115 - Big chances missed 11 - Shooting accuracy 35%
Solly March - Played 152 - Shots -156 - Big chances missed 11 - Shooting Accuracy 32%

I appreciate that Solly doesn't score enough, and the tally of 20 - 4 goals is all most of us want to think about.
But the idea £30m strikers are clinical, is far from the truth.

Those two aren't remotely comparable players. Welbeck and Toney are more like for like, but as anyone who watched Brentford away would testify Toney is miles ahead of Danny. You wouldn't need to provide any statistical proof.

But I get the argument that there aren't many Ivan Toney's lying around, so not criticising that we never signed him. I just get the impression that the club, are very much thinking, if we just keep on like we are our chronic scoring problem will just resolve itself.

I disagree with RDZ. I think the solution does involve the transfer market. Welbeck has no serious pressure on his place and the players up and around him also have very poor scoring records. If we don't have any success in the transfer market, despite having received in over £100m in fees in the last year, then the next step should be loan recalls. If we're going to have a striker who can't score in the team, it's at least preferable that we have a striker who can't score but conceivably might be able to in the future

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Those two aren't remotely comparable players. Welbeck and Toney are more like for like, but as anyone who watched Brentford away would testify Toney is miles ahead of Danny. You wouldn't need to provide any statistical proof.

But I get the argument that there aren't many Ivan Toney's lying around, so not criticising that we never signed him. I just get the impression that the club, are very much thinking, if we just keep on like we are our chronic scoring problem will just resolve itself.

I disagree with RDZ. I think the solution does involve the transfer market. Welbeck has no serious pressure on his place and the players up and around him also have very poor scoring records. If we don't have any success in the transfer market, despite having received in over £100m in fees in the last year, then the next step should be loan recalls. If we're going to have a striker who can't score in the team, it's at least preferable that we have a striker who can't score but conceivably might be able to in the future

My point is that the idea he is super clinical is a myth.
He scores goals because he fits into the style of football the coach wants to play or the coach plays to his strengths.
He doesn't score more goals because of greater accuracy.

I posted the stats to show that his accuracy and big chance misses are similar to a player, most of us would agree, isn't great at it.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

My point is that the idea he is super clinical is a myth.
He scores goals because he fits into the style of football the coach wants to play or the coach plays to his strengths.
He doesn't score more goals because of greater accuracy.

I posted the stats to show that his accuracy and big chance misses are similar to a player, most of us would agree, isn't great at it.

Accuracy stats are nonsense though. Ignore them. If my manager encourages me to shoot from 35 yards, I won't have very good accuracy stats compared to if I have a manager who tells me to recycle in that position and wait 6 yards out for the ball to come.

Toney scores goals because he is a good striker. Look at the goal he scored against us. The timing of the run, the improvisation. No statistical comparison can capture that difference, but everyone who watches football can see it.

And that big chances missed stat. What I think you seem to be saying is that Toney has missed the same number of big chances as Solly, but Solly has played more than 3 times as many games? Is that what you're saying? Because it feels right just from watching.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Accuracy stats are nonsense though. Ignore them. If my manager encourages me to shoot from 35 yards, I won't have very good accuracy stats compared to if I have a manager who tells me to recycle in that position and wait 6 yards out for the ball to come.

Toney scores goals because he is a good striker. Look at the goal he scored against us. The timing of the run, the improvisation. No statistical comparison can capture that difference, but everyone who watches football can see it.

And that big chances missed stat. What I think you seem to be saying is that Toney has missed the same number of big chances as Solly, but Solly has played more than 3 times as many games? Is that what you're saying? Because it feels right just from watching.

So yeah - Toney misses a big chance every 4 games - Solly misses 1 every 14 games.

That feels right to you does it?
Toney renowned for missing sitters and Solly isn't?