[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Newcastle United *** Official Match Thread ***

[midnight_rendezvous]

we had their starting positions well within our half, meaning they'd have to beat 3-4 men every time we attacked. .

Reading this gave me flashbacks of life under Chris Hughton, especially towards the end. I hasten to add Chris did a great job but towards the end we were dire.

As for your assessment on Newcastle, I can’t say I’ve watched enough of your games to comment. Basing it on the two fixtures between Brighton and Newcastle this season and the little I have seen, I think your assessment is quite astute.

As for ourselves, we started the season playing open and expansive football, which was a joy to watch after the previous seasons ‘sit back and hope for the best approach’. After a bad run, we reverted to type and became more defensive, lacked width, pace and creativity. This has continued in some part in to our post lockdown form. Hopefully, after a summer of recruitment we can start playing ‘Potter-ball’ again but even if we do, I can see another season of bottom 6 looming as we lack the resources to build a top 10 side at present.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Could he? No. Could someone else? Yes, somebody else definitely could have got more out of the players we have. We've 4-5 midtable-or-better Premier League Centre Backs

Really? REALLY?

Schar is definitely a good player, but I can't think of another centre back you have that any established PL side would have the slightest interest in, unless they are going by the 'has potential' scouting reports on Lascelles from six years ago

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Could he? No. Could someone else? Yes, somebody else definitely could have got more out of the players we have. We've 4-5 midtable-or-better Premier League Centre Backs and a top quality 'keeper. We had been very good at the back in previous seasons, but this term we were flipping awful.
We've two dynamic attacking midfielders in Almiron and ASM who can carry the ball at pace and trouble the majority of defences. Yet for the majority of the season we had their starting positions well within our half, meaning they'd have to beat 3-4 men every time we attacked.
We've decent players at CM but odd combinations meant we either had no endeavor and bite, or no creativity and craft.

Bruce played, for most games, a passive deep block, an isolated striker (who has never in his life been a target man) and no central attacking midfielder to link the play.
I've been told it was more exciting than Benitez' football by neutrals, but it honestly wasn't. Don't get me wrong, RB's stuff could be boring as ****, but at least after the game we could walk from the ground with a point, or a good defensive performance. Bruce's football is both bad, and boring, on the whole. I know we had an uptick in form after the restart, but that little run seems to have obliterated the memory of just how bad we were pre-lockdown. Even now we've scored fewer goals, conceded more and have roughly the same points as RB's last two seasons.

4 League wins since Boxing Day. 5 losses by 3+ goals, 1 win by the same margin.
Only 3 teams have scored fewer, only 6 have conceded more. Our 'keeper has had to make more saves than any other, and our £40m forward has 2 goals.

I couldn't think of a single PL club who would have employed Bruce as manager at the start of the season. Can't imagine many would take a punt on him now that it's all but done. Watford? Maybe?

He's shite.

Its tough, you had Rafa Benitez, why did he leave. I am not a fan of Bruce's tactics at all, he comes across as a good person though.

However, he has done an incredible job. Last September I remember agreeing with the WSC cover from last September.

His Hull side was dull to watch, however, he has been successful with most of his teams and after Beniitez has really done a quality job for you. Won 11 Drawn 11.

He is also a fan and knows what your club is about. From the outside clubs like yours always seem odd (Newcastle, Leeds, Sunderland, Villa) the fans expect so much and have a big club mentality. Nearly always the problems are at the top with poor management. What are the long term visions and goals and how will they be reached. Some teams at the top at the moment have shown how these can work, Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Sheffield United have all stuck to plans and managers.

If you really want Bruce out I would recommend you employ Chris Hughton again, he knows the club, he can work with your plan, youth and a blend of canny (expensive) purchases.

We are very much on the academy route, I love it. Potter will have some money to spend but I feel he does better with young players who can play and adapt to his systems. You cannot second guess the club, I would imagine we will buy two young players from Europe with European experience, three young championship players and then try and secure one experienced Premiership player, then use academy players. However we only buy to improve positions and it depends who falls into bracket in the window.

Chris took us up to about 8th place and in the Premership, dizzy heights for us. The Club is well run and has the ambition to be a top 10 club, if we go down we have a fantastic academy and manager to tackle the challenge of the championship.

 

[Mellotron]

We've 4-5 midtable-or-better Premier League Centre Backs.

Sorry, what?

 

[The Fish]

No he isn't. Steve Bruce is competent, you just don't happen to rate him that highly. For a merry-go-round manager, Steve Bruce's managerial record stands up pretty much everywhere he's been, much like Sam Allardyce.

If you want a shite merry-go-round manager there are plenty to choose from, but for me Alan Pardew gets the nod - well ahead of Harry Redknapp, Mark Hughes and David Moyes. I have no idea how Pardew remains (or remained) in football at the highest level for so long.

He has one of the lowest W% in the top flight. His teams have, throughout his career, relied on individuals getting them out of trouble, rather than a cogent plan. A quick google returns articles from papers covering each of his clubs begging to know what the plan is, and bemoaning the string of excuses he makes. I'd rather have Hughton than Bruce.

You'll get no defence of Pardew from me. Didn't want him appointed, didn't want him retained, delighted that Palace paid actual money to break his contract.

 

[The Fish]

Really? REALLY?

Schar is definitely a good player, but I can't think of another centre back you have that any established PL side would have the slightest interest in, unless they are going by the 'has potential' scouting reports on Lascelles from six years ago

Fair to say I've watched Newcastle more than you and I can confidently say that Clark, Fernandez, Lascelles, Lejeune and Schar are all at least midtable quality. The Latter two work best in a 3, granted, but they're still good.

Sorry, what?

As above.

They've all suffered because of the manager this season.

 

[The Fish]

Its tough, you had Rafa Benitez, why did he leave. I am not a fan of Bruce's tactics at all, he comes across as a good person though.

However, he has done an incredible job. Last September I remember agreeing with the WSC cover from last September.

Benitez left because Ashley refused to let him spend money on the Academy, or the Training Ground, or have control over transfers. Benitez believed he could get Newcastle top half and challenging for cups if he was given a bit more control.

Bruce has fundamentally not done an incredible job. Last season we finished 13th on 45pts, season before 10th on 44pts. This season we'll likely finish around 13/14th on 44pts. He inherited a good defence and a couple of good players, he's since spent £60m on attacking players which has lead to us scoring fewer goals and looking less cohesive in attack. He's left a few clubs under a cloud, so I'm not sure if his avuncular, everyman, persona is the whole picture.

His Hull side was dull to watch, however, he has been successful with most of his teams and after Beniitez has really done a quality job for you. Won 11 Drawn 11.

Has he been successful with most of his teams? I don't think he has.

He is also a fan and knows what your club is about. From the outside clubs like yours always seem odd (Newcastle, Leeds, Sunderland, Villa) the fans expect so much and have a big club mentality. Nearly always the problems are at the top with poor management. What are the long term visions and goals and how will they be reached. Some teams at the top at the moment have shown how these can work, Liverpool, Wolverhampton, Sheffield United have all stuck to plans and managers.

He might be a fan, but so am I, neither of us are good enough at managing a football club to be a Premier League manager.

I think fans of Leeds, Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle have a big club mentality because we are big clubs. Sure some fans have unrealistic expectations, but mostly fans of 'big clubs' hope for more than mediocrity. We, as fans, can see that we've got the stadium, the fanbase, the history, and so on. All we're lacking is the right owner and the right manager. Leeds look like they've solved one half of that equation, the other three teams have neither. The aim of Newcastle United should be to force our way into the European competition conversation. Good recruitment on and off the pitch, investment in the academy and training facilities, and striving for more can deliver on that.

If you really want Bruce out I would recommend you employ Chris Hughton again, he knows the club, he can work with your plan, youth and a blend of canny (expensive) purchases.

I like Hughton, I really do, but he wouldn't work under Ashley again, and if we are bought out by aspirational new owners, he's not of a sufficient standard to deliver top half or European football.

We are very much on the academy route, I love it. Potter will have some money to spend but I feel he does better with young players who can play and adapt to his systems. You cannot second guess the club, I would imagine we will buy two young players from Europe with European experience, three young championship players and then try and secure one experienced Premiership player, then use academy players. However we only buy to improve positions and it depends who falls into bracket in the window.

I've never understood why the academies aren't the priority for every club, it's a low cost, low risk conveyor belt of talent to play or profit from. If your manager has a certain style of play, the entire developmental system can be geared towards it. Far more cost effective than spending £5-10m every year on some 25yr old from France who might work out.

Chris took us up to about 8th place and in the Premership, dizzy heights for us. The Club is well run and has the ambition to be a top 10 club, if we go down we have a fantastic academy and manager to tackle the challenge of the championship.

Your Technical Director seems to have his head screwed on right as well. I'm sure that if Potter doesn't work out for whatever reason, Ashworth will already have a few names in mind to succeed him.

 

[keaton]

Fair to say I've watched Newcastle more than you and I can confidently say that Clark, Fernandez, Lascelles, Lejeune and Schar are all at least midtable quality. The Latter two work best in a 3, granted, but they're still good.

As above.

They've all suffered because of the manager this season.

And presumably all of their previous managers as well

 

[Icy Gull]

Benitez left because Ashley refused to let him spend money on the Academy, or the Training Ground, or have control over transfers. Benitez believed he could get Newcastle top half and challenging for cups if he was given a bit more control.

Bruce has fundamentally not done an incredible job. Last season we finished 13th on 45pts, season before 10th on 44pts. This season we'll likely finish around 13/14th on 44pts. He inherited a good defence and a couple of good players, he's since spent £60m on attacking players which has lead to us scoring fewer goals and looking less cohesive in attack. He's left a few clubs under a cloud, so I'm not sure if his avuncular, everyman, persona is the whole picture.

Has he been successful with most of his teams? I don't think he has.

He might be a fan, but so am I, neither of us are good enough at managing a football club to be a Premier League manager.

I think fans of Leeds, Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle have a big club mentality because we are big clubs. Sure some fans have unrealistic expectations, but mostly fans of 'big clubs' hope for more than mediocrity. We, as fans, can see that we've got the stadium, the fanbase, the history, and so on. All we're lacking is the right owner and the right manager. Leeds look like they've solved one half of that equation, the other three teams have neither. The aim of Newcastle United should be to force our way into the European competition conversation. Good recruitment on and off the pitch, investment in the academy and training facilities, and striving for more can deliver on that.

I like Hughton, I really do, but he wouldn't work under Ashley again, and if we are bought out by aspirational new owners, he's not of a sufficient standard to deliver top half or European football.

I've never understood why the academies aren't the priority for every club, it's a low cost, low risk conveyor belt of talent to play or profit from. If your manager has a certain style of play, the entire developmental system can be geared towards it. Far more cost effective than spending £5-10m every year on some 25yr old from France who might work out.


Your Technical Director seems to have his head screwed on right as well. I'm sure that if Potter doesn't work out for whatever reason, Ashworth will already have a few names in mind to succeed him.

Interesting fan thoughts

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I think fans of Leeds, Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle have a big club mentality because we are big clubs.

 

[amexer]

Still trying to forget this game Please put in Bear Pit

 

[The Fish]

And presumably all of their previous managers as well

No.

 

[The Fish]

Are we (and they) not? By most metrics we're all 'big clubs'.

History ✓
Trophies? ✓
Big Fanbase ✓
Media attention ✓
Stadium ✓
Global footprint ✓
Revenue ✓

Sunderland probably the smallest of the clubs I mention, but if they get some new owners and return to the Premier League, nobody would be surprised.

Among the 92 league clubs the four above would be near the top of people list by order of 'bigness'. Lightyears away from the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd, but big? Yeah definitely.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Are we (and they) not? By most metrics we're all 'big clubs'.

History ✓
Trophies? ✓
Big Fanbase ✓
Media attention ✓
Stadium ✓
Global footprint ✓
Revenue ✓

Sunderland probably the smallest of the clubs I mention, but if they get some new owners and return to the Premier League, nobody would be surprised.

Among the 92 league clubs the four above would be near the top of people list by order of 'bigness'. Lightyears away from the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd, but big? Yeah definitely.

So big club (sic) = top 8 Premiership football = fan ridiculous expectations.

As I say Sunderland, Leeds, Villa, Portsmouth like yourself all have this mentality that history, size, trophys should mean almost automatic success. I was shocked on our last trip to Old Trafford the vitriol aimed at Ole as manager, I wonder if that will remain for his whole tenure. If your club wanted a long term plan and to meet the fans expectations then you had the manager in Benetiz in place. Instead you have a manger loyal to the club who has finished you at the top of that 'wannabe big club expectation club list', a manger whom you seem to want out.

The ones you left of your tick list were 'long tern plan' 'plans how to remain a big club (sic)' and 'top 10 European Manager on long term deal' 'Owned by a country that can match Man City spending' Also should Revenue not read as profit for your owner.

I hope Bruce keeps his job and continues with his upward trajectory with the club, he has deserved that right. If not I hope you can secure your big money take over and Moriniho, Simeone, Conte, Zizane as manager in time for next season.

 

[The Fish]

So big club (sic) = top 8 Premiership football = fan ridiculous expectations.

As I say Sunderland, Leeds, Villa, Portsmouth like yourself all have this mentality that history, size, trophys should mean almost automatic success. I was shocked on our last trip to Old Trafford the vitriol aimed at Ole as manager, I wonder if that will remain for his whole tenure. If your club wanted a long term plan and to meet the fans expectations then you had the manager in Benetiz in place. Instead you have a manger loyal to the club who has finished you at the top of that 'wannabe big club expectation club list', a manger whom you seem to want out.

The ones you left of your tick list were 'long tern plan' 'plans how to remain a big club (sic)' and 'top 10 European Manager on long term deal' 'Owned by a country that can match Man City spending' Also should Revenue not read as profit for your owner.

I hope Bruce keeps his job and continues with his upward trajectory with the club, he has deserved that right. If not I hope you can secure your big money take over and Moriniho, Simeone, Conte, Zizane as manager in time for next season.

I don't think Bruce continued with his upward trajectory.

I think fans hopes/frustrations are mistaken for expectations. Liverpool fans will have hoped to win the league again, and been frustrated that they're nowhere near. Newcastle fans hope for a top 10 finish again, and are frustrated that we're in a relegation fight.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I don't think Bruce continued with his upward trajectory.

I think fans hopes/frustrations are mistaken for expectations. Liverpool fans will have hoped to win the league again, and been frustrated that they're nowhere near. Newcastle fans hope for a top 10 finish again, and are frustrated that we're in a relegation fight.

I am not a fan of Bruce's teams over the years. However I think the Newcastle fans should back their manager. I think the league position is more about the team, especially Callum Wilson. He was scoring in a poor team and I would have loved to have had the money to throw at him to play for us. I do not know when your injury's are due back. Like Newcastle they are affecting our season as well, no Lampty or March again this season. It's tough when a manager cannot pick his best 11 week in and out.

 

[The Fish]

I am not a fan of Bruce's teams over the years. However I think the Newcastle fans should back their manager. I think the league position is more about the team, especially Callum Wilson. He was scoring in a poor team and I would have loved to have had the money to throw at him to play for us. I do not know when your injury's are due back. Like Newcastle they are affecting our season as well, no Lampty or March again this season. It's tough when a manager cannot pick his best 11 week in and out.

In a season where nobody's been in the ground, I'm not sure how 'supporting the manager' would benefit a team that's been comprehensibly outplayed by the second string of Championship Brentford, a Sheffield team who hadn't won or kept a clean sheet until they played us. and a below strength Brighton side twice.

Bruce is awful, has been for years. We knew it before he was appointed, saw it last season where we fluked our way through far too many games and now, when the luck's run out, the rest of the world can see just how bad he is.

His mates in the Media are finally admitting that their defence of him was based on a personal affection for the man, rather than any faith in his ability.

This squad, even in it's weakened state, should still be able to string a pass together, be organised at the back, pressure the opposition. We're doing none of that and will go down unless Fulham can discover a seam of terrible form/luck to mine.

 

[GT49er]

Wonder why posts 674, 675 and 676 don't show?