[Misc] Brighton climbing the crime table, will Crime Crushers make a difference?

[nicko31]

I thought we were talking about our assault on top 6 beating off the oligarchs and petro states

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Curing addiction is far more successful in preventing re-offending than sending addicts to prison for "minor" crimes. Unfortunately we have had populist ministers for the last 14 years who say what people want to hear and that's mostly "lock them up".
We need to have a grown up debate about drugs and start treating addiction as a medical rather than a criminal issue (do this and a reduction in crime will follow). We need to invest money in addiction treatment, not just illegal drugs, but alcohol too.

Well said. There used to be funded programmes for drug treatment etc but they were all dropped over the last 14 years.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Do you mean to strip out the public funding being thrown in that bandwagon direction to re-direct towards more direct objectives such as targeting the career criminals?

Not at all. What I am saying is that the criminal justice system is a monolith making so much money that most involved do not see the advantage of ending it. Everyone benefits except the prisoners and no-one cares about them. I do not have the answer.

 

[CheeseRolls]

'No shit Sherlock' you might say to the above statement as shown on https://crimespotlight.uk/ but where do we go next so that reporting a crime turns into real action that reduces re-occurence? Nearly everyone knows someone affected by crime that has led to inaction / no resolution. I'm sure there are other NSC threads that have chewed this over but couldn't see anywhere where this fitted.

I saw this table in connection with the newish Crime Crushers initiative. https://crushcrime.org/ and I believe there are other crime data collection initiatives in progress.

Be interested in perspectives on this. One of the lead figures is apparently the person who successfully led the XL Bully Dog Ban campaign. I think they are using the 'Vote Leave' concept of very simple messaging designed to appeal to many.

The goals are claimed to be:

1. Jail career criminals who generate most crime — 1 in ten commit over half all crimes but the system does not target them.
2. Toughen up sentences.
3. Build more prison places and secure hospital places.
4. Huge growth in court capacity to crush the court backlogs
5. Reverse the collapse of the entire justice system — prisons, courts, police etc.

No hope? or possible turning point? Are there any economists who could show that rather than have the constant focus on economic growth interventions a huge public investment here could generate wider economic and social benefits? Or will such initiatives always fall foul of alternative, socially-motivated policies?

I'm open minded (but have certainly experienced the police / courts inaction / congestion problems and felt underserved by the authorities) - though it doesn't take much for something like this to tip into an excuse to target vulnerable groups.

I took a brief interest in what Dr Lawrence Newport had to say, a couple of weeks back. Who wouldn't want to get behind this?

It may just be the cynic in me, that is questioning why now and why is a grass roots campaign organising itself from Covent Garden? I have a suspicion leases are not be renewed on Tufton Street.

I think we are all going to get to know Dr Lawrence very well through the media in the coming years. Though quite how he is going to be able to afford to give up so much of his time, especially with the cost of property in Covent Garden. Is there a touch of the Bruce Wayne about him?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not at all. What I am saying is that the criminal justice system is a monolith making so much money that most involved do not see the advantage of ending it. Everyone benefits except the prisoners and no-one cares about them. I do not have the answer.

Money making? Only barristers at Crown Court make anything and they’re on fixed fees.
There are privatised areas like Sodexo doing the catering for prisons & G4.

 

[Eeyore]

We could transport all the criminals to Australia, that seemed to work before. Is hanging still an option for more minor offences, you know, like not paying parking fines or dropping litter?

@LadySeagull Your inbox is full....

 

[Eeyore]

Exactly. "Defund the Police" was official Tory party policy long before it became an American activist slogan. And while you're at it defund the courts and prison services too. No point in having systems for processing criminals if we're not catching them. And yes, I accept it's not as 'Daily Mail' simple as saying "Build more prisons, employ more police". But it is part of the problem.

I'm slightly jaundiced at the moment as a couple of weeks ago I had my car stolen from in front of my house. My sole contact with the police was filling in an on-line form, and getting an email with a Crime Reference number for the insurers. The email also said they weren't going to investigate and the case was closed. I wasn't expecting them to send a team of detectives up to Fiveways and/or set up an Incident Room, but I thought they might be interested in getting a little bit more information.

They seem to only investigate if it is found.

I had my car stolen in 2003. It was found and they caught the crim by analysis of a cigarette butt in the car with his DNA on ! He got two years.

I was told at the time that about six people were responsible for most of the car crime in Brighton.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Money making? Only barristers at Crown Court make anything and they’re on fixed fees.
There are privatised areas like Sodexo doing the catering for prisons & G4.

Exactly! Privatised services are making an absolute fortune along with private prisons. There are lawyers, courts, probation services who have so much work they are overloaded. Keeping one young prisoner inside costs more than sending him to Eton.It’s a huge industry. It’s like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. I am not saying that individuals make a fortune just that there are huge sums involved. No-one, to my knowledge, is scamming the system, that’s not what I am saying at all. The justice system is a huge cost to the country and is driven on by cries of “Lock ‘em up.” Like I said, no-one cares about prisoners and life after prison is made really difficult. For instance, any ex-prisoner looking for car insurance will find it incredibly expensive to obtain and must be tempted to not bother, which will lead to reoffending. No-one cares about them. There are no votes in trying to put them on the right track. All you hear is, lock them up, forgetting that the vast majority will be released at some time. Very few serve whole life sentences. Prison could happen to anyone but nobody wants to acknowledge that.

 

[albionalba]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-bobbies-on-the-beat-as-pm-puts-peoples-priorities-first

It's interesting that Crime Crushers don't have this as an objective - presumably because they knew this was in the pipeline anyway. I'm sure it will be welcome if it translates into reality - but also interesting to see if the alleged renewal of Neighbourhood policing will tackle (for example) the shoplifting epidemic as described by @BevBHA

 

[The Grockle]

Crime in our area is rife, plagued by shoplifting and burglaries. Offenders rarely seem to be caught or convicted.

Two points for me

1. If we can hand out heavy custodial sentences for people posting hate on fcaebook why can't we hand heavy sentences to repeat shoplifters. Release low risk offenders with tags to free up prison spaces.

2. All shoplifters who are caught should be tagged for two years, take away some of their freedom and alert retailers that they have entered the shop. Those with security can refuse them entry upon arrival.

Point two might sound draconian but we have created a generation of petty criminals who know they can steal with no repercussions. We are in a crisis and need a robust response.

 

[kevo]

'No shit Sherlock' you might say to the above statement as shown on https://crimespotlight.uk/ but where do we go next so that reporting a crime turns into

That site doesn't even say where or how it compiles its data.

 

[kevo]

That site doesn't even say where or how it compiles its data.

This is a striking statistic, which again makes me thing the data may not be wholly reliable:

 

[rippleman]

1) Get the police out of the habit of driving around in their warm, comfortable vehicles and get them back on the beat. Especially the PCSOs; that's their job.

2) Get Courts to operate 9 - 5 with an hour for lunch like most of us.

I really don't need to know the name of my designated police officer. I just want them to deal with a crime when I've reported it.

 

[happypig]

2) Get Courts to operate 9 - 5 with an hour for lunch like most of us.

Courts aren't just operating during the times the justices are sitting (typically 10-1 & 2:15-4:30).

Magistrates arrive between 9 and 9:30. They will need to read the court list to see if they need to recuse themselves or swap courts. There will be a pre-court briefing from the legal advisor. There may be warrant applications. If it's a sentencing court there may be reports to read.
Lunch is often spent reading reports for sentencing in the PM court.
Afterwards there will be a post-court review and there may be other matters to deal with that aren't open court procedures.

For this Magistrates get paid the princely sum of bugger all.

 

[albionalba]

That site doesn't even say where or how it compiles its data.

Agree it isn't very clear. They say 'all from publicly available sources' but that's not very transparent. If you still use X you'll find a Sussex thread on under @Crimewatcher with some replies.

Crush Crime does have a research page here https://crushcrime.org/research/

 

[albionalba]

BTW if anyone interested you could always rewatch the film Hot Fuzz if you want to reimagine today's announcement from Labour re Neighbourhood Watch scale up......

 

[The Clamp]

A publicly funded safeguarding and mental health team, set up as a serious emergency service throughout the U.K. accessible on 999 would take a lot of pressure off the police and ambulance service.

They have the “right person, right service” initiative.

I can report that it is an absolute disaster and only functions as a framework to pass the buck.

 

[cunning fergus]

We could transport all the criminals to Australia, that seemed to work before. Is hanging still an option for more minor offences, you know, like not paying parking fines or dropping litter?

Dont forget that for over 100 years, and up to 1787, British criminals were sent to work in plantations in the US and Caribbean. The solution found to their poor performance working in the climate and 2nd British civil war put a stick in those spokes………

https://search.app/qC7UQKTY4Z4UgP56