Brighton Bomber back in Town

[Insel affe]

All well and good. When do you have to get over it ?

when your man enough.

 

[Insel affe]

having read a book on the Black and Tans some time ago maybe tainted my view a little, and they were there on our behalf, raping pillaging, burning down whole villages they have long,long memories whether you like it or not.
but if you can sweep that under the carpet as though it did not happen then good for you.

mmmm let me see shall I hold a grudge against the Romans (Italy), Saxons (germany again), Vikings (Norway, Sweden & Denmark) oh and the Irish back in the day raiding raping pillaging, taking slaves and burning down whole villages....

Oh hang on that was probably our fault and far too long ago to count.....

No we got over it.

 

[Chicken Run]

Quite.

That's because she's a decent human being with a moral compass, he on the other hand is a dirty tnuc who I would imagine if his father was killed in the same way would blow the venue up if the perpetrator was in town for a chat. Oh and as a Gulf War veteran I wouldn't describe "the troubles" as a war…

 

[glasfryn]

mmmm let me see shall I hold a grudge against the Romans (Italy), Saxons (germany again), Vikings (Norway, Sweden & Denmark) oh and the Irish back in the day raiding raping pillaging, taking slaves and burning down whole villages....

Oh hang on that was probably our fault and far too long ago to count.....

No we got over it.

but the thing you do not understand and don't seem to want too is THEY DID'NT

That's because she's a decent human being with a moral compass, he on the other hand is a dirty tnuc who I would imagine if his father was killed in the same way would blow the venue up if the perpetrator was in town for a chat. Oh and as a Gulf War veteran I wouldn't describe "the troubles" as a war…

see above post otherwise I totally agree with you

 

[Nibble]

Let's hear what he has to say. Nothing good ever came from silencing people, however distasteful we find the content.

 

[Insel affe]

but the thing you do not understand and don't seem to want too is THEY DID'NT

Sorry fella I am a little confused see below your post

" having read a book on the Black and Tans some time ago maybe tainted my view a little, and they were there on our behalf, raping pillaging, burning down whole villages they have long,long memories whether you like it or not.
but if you can sweep that under the carpet as though it did not happen then good for you"

This implies that they have a valid point for holding a grievance and that I am cold or distant because I care not a jot.


But the main implication is that I do not understand that they hold grievances that go back hundreds of years and will never forgive or forget.....

I do understand that they are bitter and cant let go.

mmmm who is more sensible them or me.

 

[pastafarian]

someone needs to drop a jobby in his dressing room

Welcome to Brighton!.........you

 

[glasfryn]

mmmm let me see shall I hold a grudge against the Romans (Italy), Saxons (germany again), Vikings (Norway, Sweden & Denmark) oh and the Irish back in the day raiding raping pillaging, taking slaves and burning down whole villages....

Oh hang on that was probably our fault and far too long ago to count.....

No we got over it.

Sorry fella I am a little confused see below your post

" having read a book on the Black and Tans some time ago maybe tainted my view a little, and they were there on our behalf, raping pillaging, burning down whole villages they have long,long memories whether you like it or not.
but if you can sweep that under the carpet as though it did not happen then good for you"

This implies that they have a valid point for holding a grievance and that I am cold or distant because I care not a jot.


But the main implication is that I do not understand that they hold grievances that go back hundreds of years and will never forgive or forget.....

I do understand that they are bitter and cant let go.

mmmm who is more sensible them or me.

you, but they will never be sensible about what happened and you surely must understand not everybody is the same
why do you think there are so many conflicts across the world if we all thought alike there would'nt be would there
catholic v protestant
christian v muslim
black v white
white v white
people have tried to bring them together in peace and failed abjectly
the IRA declared war on us , it does not matter what you and I and anyone else thought its what they thought that matters it should'nt but it does

 

[Insel affe]

you, but they will never be sensible about what happened and you surely must understand not everybody is the same
why do you think there are so many conflicts across the world if we all thought alike there would'nt be would there
catholic v protestant
christian v muslim
black v white
white v white
people have tried to bring them together in peace and failed abjectly
the IRA declared war on us , it does not matter what you and I and anyone else thought its what they thought that matters it should'nt but it does

You talk sense at last however you forgot

Albion v Palace


call yourself a fan....

 

[fataddick]

Terrorism is such a pejorative term. Within the framework of the war the IRA were fighting, the Grand during the governing party's conference is about as legitimate a target as you can probably get, topped only by that time they fired a bazooka at a cabinet meeting in Westminster. Yes, the IRA did a lot of utterly despicable things - Warrington, for example, is as morally repellant and unjustifiable an act of terrorism as you can get. Surely, though, targetting the leader of the country you consider yourself at war with (as the Grand bomb did) can't be described as 'terrorist' by any logical definition of the word?

 

[Buzzer]

Terrorism is such a pejorative term.

Pejorative? You want something more warm and cuddly to describe the actions of an organisation that bombs civilians? They killed a 4 year old boy in Warrington. Australian tourists in Europe, shoppers in Oxford Street. Please tell me what word you want instead of terrorist. I'm genuinely curious as to what words you would use to describe the IRA.

Surely, though, targetting the leader of the country you consider yourself at war with (as the Grand bomb did) can't be described as 'terrorist' by any logical definition of the word?

Okay - lets' look at the definition shall we? The OED describes it thus:

The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims; (originally) such practices used by a government or ruling group (freq. through paramilitary or informal armed groups) in order to maintain its control over a population; (now usually) such practices used by a clandestine or expatriate organization as a means of furthering its aims.

They even cite Northern Ireland as an example. So yes, in the logical sense of the word they were 'terrorists'. Very, very, very poor attempt at fishing and in extremely poor taste.

 

[fataddick]

Pejorative? You want something more warm and cuddly to describe the actions of an organisation that bombs civilians? They killed a 4 year old boy in Warrington. Australian tourists in Europe, shoppers in Oxford Street. Please tell me what word you want instead of terrorist. I'm genuinely curious as to what words you would use to describe the IRA.

Do you only read the bits of people's posts that you want to. I mentioned the Warrington bomb as a disgusting act of terrorism. The IRA committed a lot of terrorist acts. I condemn terrorist acts wholeheartedly. The Brighton bomb was not, by my definition of the word, a 'terrorist' act as it directly targeted what the IRA saw as their 'enemy' (the UK government). Partly this may be semantics, but in a wider framework, painting everything that a group does as inherently terrorist isn't helpful towards anything but bigotry. Just because the IRA are "a terrorist group" doesn't mean everything they do is automatically a terrorist act. That's the kind of logic that Israel applies when branding all of Hamas - a political party that provides schools, hospitals etc - as terrorists, for example.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

...I don't remember seeing a declaration of war by the British people or Government.

That's because we invaded them a long time ago.

 

[Insel affe]

That's because we invaded them a long time ago.

Oh that makes it ok then..... Long time ago, and so did they invade along time ago all along the Welsh coast, Devon, Cornwall and Somerset raping pillaging etc etc..... A long time ago, lets see how long we can hold a grudge can we.....

 

[Buzzer]

Do you only read the bits of people's posts that you want to. .

I read it all. I just wanted to separate out that mealy-mouthed obscenity because it is quite staggering.

And let me throw your accusation back at you. My second paragraph that you haven't quoted gives you the definition of terrorist and as far as I can see Maguire's actions fit that definition quite nicely. You claim that his actions can't be described as terrorist by any logical definition. Maybe you should get in touch with the OED.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I do not also care if the Irish have long memories, that to me is bitterness and they need to get over it.

If they need to get over the past then so should we (technically, a very very long time ago 'we' started it), if this man comes in reconciliation then we should accept that, and also 'get over it'.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

A long time ago, lets see how long we can hold a grudge can we.....

Lets not, lets forgive.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

The IRA committed a lot of terrorist acts. I condemn terrorist acts wholeheartedly. The Brighton bomb was not, by my definition of the word, a 'terrorist' act as it directly targeted what the IRA saw as their 'enemy' (the UK government). Partly this may be semantics, but in a wider framework, painting everything that a group does as inherently terrorist isn't helpful ...

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

[Buzzer]

The Brighton bomb was not, by my definition of the word, a 'terrorist' act as it directly targeted what the IRA saw as their 'enemy' (the UK government).

According to you, Lady Jean Shattock, wife of the SW area Tories was a legitimate target of a terror organisation at war with Britain. Roberta Wakeham, the wife of a Government minister was also killed - but their deaths cannot be described as terrorist by any logical definition according to you.

Have a f*cking word with yourself, you're an utter disgrace.

 

[glasfryn]

mmmm let me see shall I hold a grudge against the Romans (Italy), Saxons (germany again), Vikings (Norway, Sweden & Denmark) oh and the Irish back in the day raiding raping pillaging, taking slaves and burning down whole villages....

Oh hang on that was probably our fault and far too long ago to count.....

No we got over it.

Pejorative? You want something more warm and cuddly to describe the actions of an organisation that bombs civilians? They killed a 4 year old boy in Warrington. Australian tourists in Europe, shoppers in Oxford Street. Please tell me what word you want instead of terrorist. I'm genuinely curious as to what words you would use to describe the IRA.



Okay - lets' look at the definition shall we? The OED describes it thus:

The unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims; (originally) such practices used by a government or ruling group (freq. through paramilitary or informal armed groups) in order to maintain its control over a population; (now usually) such practices used by a clandestine or expatriate organization as a means of furthering its aims.

They even cite Northern Ireland as an example. So yes, in the logical sense of the word they were 'terrorists'. Very, very, very poor attempt at fishing and in extremely poor taste.

that could almost be a mission statement for the British black and tans.