[Politics] Brexit

[Hastings gull]

I have the same thoughts on power being held as locally as possible, but I also see the sense in having some law making or rule setting apply to the widest possible area. There is a debate to be had over whether the EU has too much or not enough powers, many of the issues people had with it could have been solved if the EU were able to do more.
The EU has many faults, but is it better to be in it and try and make it work better, or be out and have much reduced if any influence over its direction, but still be affected to some extent by it's actions? My feeling was, and is, that there are more benefits than drawbacks as it is, and that with a bit more engagement from the UK side, it could be improved.
There was also no definitive relationship status if, as we did, vote to leave. It was likely in my mind that we end up much like Norway, and I think over time that we probably still will as different Governments seek to restore some of the lost benefits, the EU is not going away and we will still be an Island on its doorstep.

In theory you are right -it is better to be in rather than out, if you wish to instigate change. But given that we have been members for decades, the practice would not seem to bear this out, sadly. Try suggesting, for example, that the EU saves hundreds of millions by just having one Parliament, rather than perpetually switching between two venues.

 

[RossyG]

Given you seem to have obtained your information from The Sun it’s no wonder you don’t get it. Maybe if you read a proper newspaper you might?

Not sure if you’re feigning ignorance, but I’ll assume not.

The point I was making was that for many years people were apathetic towards the EEC/EU. When they weren’t ignoring it, they were reading jokey stories about butter mountains etc. These would elicit a wry snort and then people would carry on with their lives. Then Jasper Carrot would joke about how no one knew who their Euro MP was. It’d get a laugh because it was largely true and then people would forget about it.

No one gave a **** about the EU. Then all of all of a sudden people were shrieking in the streets at the thought of leaving it.

Oh, and whether the Sun reported it or not is immaterial. The butter “mountain” (surplus) was a real thing. Ditto the wine lake.

 

[Justice]

The Poles have done a enough damage to our building trade Jesus I’ve seen some rough house jobs get out quick....

 

[JC Footy Genius]

In theory you are right -it is better to be in rather than out, if you wish to instigate change. But given that we have been members for decades, the practice would not seem to bear this out, sadly. Try suggesting, for example, that the EU saves hundreds of millions by just having one Parliament, rather than perpetually switching between two venues.

Every EC/EU treaty signed = more powers taken from nation-states and more powers centralised. We have been fighting a rearguard action for decades securing the occasional opt-out along the way, yet here we are ... EU with flags, anthem, currency, numerous Presidents, Constitution, it's just wishful/delusional thinking to suggest this onward march to ever closer union would change and of course, no one ever comes forward with a realistic suggestion to how this change could be achieved.

 

[Baldseagull]

What I don’t get about Remainers is why they're so attached to it. For years, the EEC/EC/EU was this boring Europudding of an organisation that was all about bureaucracy, butter mountains, wine lakes and expense accounts. There was a TV show on Channel 4 in the 1990s called The Gravy Train that took the piss out of it and everyone just laughed along. Jasper Carrot did a joke about no one knowing who their Euro MP was and only one person in the audience did.

And then the EU started wanting political power and to have its own currency and people thought, Ah sod this, this is getting a bit much. And at this point, a certain section of society suddenly decided that the EU was the hill they’d die on, that those who didn’t like it were awful working class Nazis, and they gaslit kids into thinking it was the end of civilisation as we know it to pull out.

Maybe because we know more about it than just the jokes and false newspaper stories?

 

[nwgull]

That's a gross generalisation. If you look at some of my posts on the Brexit thread you'll see that I argue that the reason that the negotiations are a mess is precisely because they started off with the assumption that the EU is the enemy, with talk of wins and losses. It was not the way to approach everything back then and it's not the way to approach things now.

And I certainly don't put immigration on top of the list. As I said earlier, I'd have been happier to have kept free movement.

It sounded like you voted on the ambiguously worded remain/leave question on the basis that leave would be much softer than the no-deal we seem to be heading towards. If you knew that this would happen, would it have affected your decision?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Every EC/EU treaty signed = more powers taken from nation-states and more powers centralised. We have been fighting a rearguard action for decades securing the occasional opt-out along the way, yet here we are ... EU with flags, anthem, currency, numerous Presidents, Constitution, it's just wishful/delusional thinking to suggest this onward march to ever closer union would change and of course, no one ever comes forward with a realistic suggestion to how this change could be achieved.

Britain haven't had to adopt the Flag, Anthem or currency (to the best of my knowledge we still have the Union flag. albeit temporarily due to you, God Save the Queen and Sterling). And I have to wonder what sort of democracy would have a single president for it's entirety

I'm sorry, but months without posting (particularly not on football threads) and this is the best you can come up with ? I'm disappointed and, let's face it, expectations weren't high. It's not just complete crap, it is quite simply, factually incorrect.

Cue, 'But what about the constitution, I said constitution as well'

 

[Baldseagull]

In theory you are right -it is better to be in rather than out, if you wish to instigate change. But given that we have been members for decades, the practice would not seem to bear this out, sadly. Try suggesting, for example, that the EU saves hundreds of millions by just having one Parliament, rather than perpetually switching between two venues.

Well, yes, some of what most would call an issue that needs solving, France sees as a benefit that needs keeping and can veto any attempts to remedy it. One for the EU having more power possibly? However, there is a way around this, a bit like the solution to France and Germany doing quite so well in terms of incoming funds from the CAP, Maggie argued for and got a rebate on UK contributions to even it up for us a bit, France would need to get some other benefit in return for giving up this little perk in terms of influx of spending in Strasbourg, personally I would have offered to give up a bit of the UK rebate to get that done, but realistically, any UK PM would get hung out to dry by the UK press for doing that.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

Most remainers are no better than Trump and his crew in not accepting a result

That's a little bit of a sweeping statement. There are far more people who voted remain who view from the sidelines, in agreement that the democratic wish of the electorate should be upheld and in agreement that over the long term we will find a new way for our country. Although accepting the vote does not exclude remain voters from expressing an opinion of how the government is performing in negotiations to exit Europe. It's a real shame a minority imagine remainers want the Brexit negotiations to fail & the country is on course for oblivion just to say ' I told you so'. Brexiteers & remainers (oh I hate these pigeonholed name tags)
should question the good, bad, indifferent policies that will be thrust on the population of the UK. Hence the OPs thread & poll to judge how the people who voted out view the current position as we stand in Brexit so far.

 

[RossyG]

Maybe because we know more about it than just the jokes and false newspaper stories?

And yet despite having the BBC, Channel 4, countless celebrities, and the political establishment on your side, you still couldn’t put up a compelling reason to stay for the majority of voters.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Britain haven't had to adopt the Flag, Anthem or currency (to the best of my knowledge we still have the Union flag. albeit temporarily due to you, God Save the Queen and Sterling). And I have to wonder what sort of democracy would have a single president for it's entirety

I'm sorry, but months without posting (particularly not on football threads) and this is the best you can come up with ? I'm disappointed and, let's face it, expectations weren't high. It's not just complete crap, it is quite simply, factually incorrect.

Cue, 'But what about the constitution, I said constitution as well'

Maybe you should go back to your 'humorous' account as it may be less embarrassing. Or maybe not

 

[Stat Brother]

I take it I'm not the first to note the irony of 'your views aren't wanted on this thread' after years of Brexit being shoehorned into 90% of all threads on NSC.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Britain haven't had to adopt the Flag, Anthem or currency (to the best of my knowledge we still have the Union flag. albeit temporarily due to you, God Save the Queen and Sterling). And I have to wonder what sort of democracy would have a single president for it's entirety

I'm sorry, but months without posting (particularly not on football threads) and this is the best you can come up with ? I'm disappointed and, let's face it, expectations weren't high. It's not just complete crap, it is quite simply, factually incorrect.

Cue, 'But what about the constitution, I said constitution as well'

Stop trying to derail this thread with your tedious ill-informed ramblings and get back to the pit where you belong.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Stop trying to derail this thread with your tedious ill-informed ramblings and get back to the pit where you belong.

Funnily enough, I knew you wouldn't have an answer in any of your guises

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well, yes, some of what most would call an issue that needs solving, France sees as a benefit that needs keeping and can veto any attempts to remedy it. One for the EU having more power possibly? However, there is a way around this, a bit like the solution to France and Germany doing quite so well in terms of incoming funds from the CAP, Maggie argued for and got a rebate on UK contributions to even it up for us a bit, France would need to get some other benefit in return for giving up this little perk in terms of influx of spending in Strasbourg, personally I would have offered to give up a bit of the UK rebate to get that done, but realistically, any UK PM would get hung out to dry by the UK press for doing that.

Maggie. Now there was somebody who knew how to negotiate with the EU

She always supported negotiation with the EU and was a great supporter of it, rather than running away. I wonder why that may be

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How strange - [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION] get's involved and the thread get's Bear Piited.

 

[Weststander]

How strange - [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION] get's involved and the thread get's Bear Piited.

This may’ve been the first NSC EU thread where arguments were calmly given by both sides and the open minded, and I got the impression that for the very first time many listened to what ‘the opposition’ had to say.

Good while it lasted,

 

[Westdene Seagull]

This may’ve been the first NSC EU thread where arguments were calmly given by both sides and the open minded, and I got the impression that for the very first time many listened to what ‘the opposition’ had to say.

Good while it lasted,

Indeed. Bar the odd post it was very civil mostly .... really not sure why it got bear pitted.

 

[The Clamp]

I know plenty of people "IRL" that voted leave and they are intelligent, thoughtful people who can articulate the reasons they left and can also voice concerns about the way Brexit is being conducted. So how come all the leave voters on here are such abject wankers?

 

[Weststander]

Indeed. Bar the odd post it was very civil mostly .... really not sure why it got bear pitted.

I wonder if a non-contributor made a complaint? About 100 posts in, someone demanded that it be moved to the Bear Pit.

I recognise that many folk can’t stand politics on NSC.