[Politics] Brexit

[Tom Bombadil]

The thing I’ve noticed with Remainers is they tend to live in a fantasy world where everyone wants to buy each other a coke.

No deal is part of getting a good deal, they are symbiotic.

If you have never been in commercial style negations before I guess the principle can be difficult to accept and I can see why those who haven’t can be confused by those who understand the necessary hard headed negotiating tactics.

Touched a nerve there.

 

[Weststander]

The remain viewpoint at the time was not political bias but common sense. They would feel vindicated by it looking at where we are today, no deal, lorry parks and Kent becoming the toilet of England proves it. You criticise people who been proved correct about leave yet the people on leave side have been wrong about everything like Gove and there now in control. the trouble with yours and brexiters argument is it only satisfies leavers not everyone so you will never get a Brexit that is right for EVERYONE

And Brexit is Nationalism, debates with leavers are usually always centred around British exceptionalism, almost every leave voter sees Europe as our enemy, they have disdain for the EU the reality quickly evaporatea and is replaced by - we used to have an empire, nostalgia, Britain rules the waves, before you know you're talking about the war. And almost every leaver puts immigration at the top of their list. If it was a purely economic decision we would remain!

Oh by the way - I'd have nick Clegg over boris Johnson in a heartbeat

Or:
“I’m a tradesperson or contractor, and have been hit by Eastern Europeans cutting my rates significantly”.
“I live in a small town in the Midlands and hate the way our community has been changed by so many immigrants in such a short time. It was already hard to get housing or a GP’s appointment, now it’s next to impossible”.

There are definitely a load of people who you’ve described correctly, but it’s silly to tar 52% of voters with that harsh nationalist brush.

 

[cunning fergus]

We always put our best performing commercial negotiators in the compliance department too

Your obsession with me and what you think I do runs unabated.

It’s kinda cute that you are so interested in me, but I do think you should try and get a healthier interest, have you thought about following a football team?

 

[cunning fergus]

Touched a nerve there.

You’re welcome.

 

[RossyG]

I’m glad we’re leaving the EU. What was meant to be a trading bloc has become a huge political entity, so good riddance to it.

It’s up to us to look after ourselves now. If we can’t manage that then so be it.

If we’re hobbled by the EU working against us, then that just proves how right we are to be leaving it.

 

[Randy McNob]

Or:
“I’m a tradesperson or contractor, and have been hit by Eastern Europeans cutting my rates significantly”.
“I live in a small town in the Midlands and hate the way our community has been changed by so many immigrants in such a short time. It was already hard to get housing or a GP’s appointment, now it’s next to impossible”.

There are definitely a load of people who you’ve described correctly, but it’s silly to tar 52% of voters with that harsh nationalist brush.

You are right actually I admit. It always the loons and Brextremists who seem to be the most vocal.

They should have stopped all those thick as pigshit Brexit people calling LBC as well.

 

[Is it PotG?]

They should have stopped all those thick as pigshit Brexit people calling LBC as well.

They need someone on a twattery level with O'Brien....makes for fun calls.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

The thing I’ve noticed with Remainers is they tend to live in a fantasy world where everyone wants to buy each other a coke.

No deal is part of getting a good deal, they are symbiotic.

If you have never been in commercial style negations before I guess the principle can be difficult to accept and I can see why those who haven’t can be confused by those who understand the necessary hard headed negotiating tactics.

I am a Remainer but have accepted that we are leaving and must now look to make the new reality work as well as it can for everyone in the UK and start to bring an end to these horrible divisions. I accept your point that in any negotiation you must credibly be able to walk away from the table. So, I wouldn’t be concerned with ‘No Deal’ being presented in this way if I thought this was part of tactical plan delivered by competent people on the UK’s side but I really have my doubts about this.
Also I work on EU-funded projects and I have quite a lot to do with people in Brussels and am under no illusions that they can be incredibly difficult to work and negotiate with. So I hope I am not too deluded.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The ones hoping it's a failure fascinate me. Each and every day it's 'this deal went well' or whatever, as if to say 'I told you so'.

The May deal failing as it was not voted through meant a bigger Leave/Remain decide and lead to BoJo and the ERG types taking over. Should have left Moderate May at the helm.

We're out, we need to move on and accept the situation with a view to making the best job possible of it.

 

[Weststander]

You are right actually I admit. It always the loons and Brextremists who seem to be the most vocal.

They should have stopped all those thick as pigshit Brexit people calling LBC as well.

Do you listen to leftie James O’Brien ever, 10 til 1?

I have a mix of political views, not as defined as yours, but I love calls where bigots try to take him on. His clashes with thick Trump devotees (thick because they can’t say why exactly Trump is good ... apart from the Make America Great Again slogan) are fantastic ... all on youtube.

 

[WATFORD zero]

They need someone on a twattery level with O'Brien....makes for fun calls.

I actually agree with you

Somebody as ardently pro-Brexit, as he is anti-Brexit, who had studied the detail of the whole Brexit thing and was armed with all the facts to take Anti-Brexit caller's arguments apart. It would be most entertaining.

I can't imagine why they haven't found one

(And I've taken [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] kind and polite advice and re-read the title of the thread, so I haven't voted in the poll question).

 

[RossyG]

The thing I’ve noticed with Remainers is they tend to live in a fantasy world where everyone wants to buy each other a coke.

What I don’t get about Remainers is why they're so attached to it. For years, the EEC/EC/EU was this boring Europudding of an organisation that was all about bureaucracy, butter mountains, wine lakes and expense accounts. There was a TV show on Channel 4 in the 1990s called The Gravy Train that took the piss out of it and everyone just laughed along. Jasper Carrot did a joke about no one knowing who their Euro MP was and only one person in the audience did.

And then the EU started wanting political power and to have its own currency and people thought, Ah sod this, this is getting a bit much. And at this point, a certain section of society suddenly decided that the EU was the hill they’d die on, that those who didn’t like it were awful working class Nazis, and they gaslit kids into thinking it was the end of civilisation as we know it to pull out.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The ones hoping it's a failure fascinate me. Each and every day it's 'this deal went well' or whatever, as if to say 'I told you so'.

The May deal failing as it was not voted through meant a bigger Leave/Remain decide and lead to BoJo and the ERG types taking over. Should have left Moderate May at the helm.

We're out, we need to move on and accept the situation with a view to making the best job possible of it.

It was Johnson and the ERG that voted against May's deal. She had a majority in the house.

 

[Is it PotG?]

It was Johnson and the ERG that voted against May's deal.

I did not mention why.

Why did you need to apportion blame, whether it be Corbyn, which it was, or ERG or whatever?

Spanner.

PS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Jezza + comrades gave it the thumbs up, it would have passed?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I did not mention why.

Why did you need to apportion blame, whether it be Corbyn, which it was, or ERG or whatever?

Spanner.

PS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Jezza + comrades gave it the thumbs up, it would have passed?

It was a simple statement of fact. Theresa May had a majority in the house and if Johnson and the ERG hadn't voted against the whip, it would have gone through. It's the very basis of UK Party Government.

And try to lay off the insults, you wouldn't want to drag this into the Bear pit.

 

[Is it PotG?]

And try to lay off the insults, and don't drag this into the Bear pit.

You does make I laugh.

 

[Randy McNob]

What I don’t get about Remainers is why they're so attached to it. For years, the EEC/EC/EU was this boring Europudding of an organisation that was all about bureaucracy, butter mountains, wine lakes and expense accounts. There was a TV show on Channel 4 in the 1990s called The Gravy Train that took the piss out of it and everyone just laughed along. Jasper Carrot did a joke about no one knowing who their Euro MP was and only one person in the audience did.

And then the EU started wanting political power and to have its own currency and people thought, Ah sod this, this is getting a bit much. And at this point, a certain section of society suddenly decided that the EU was the hill they’d die on, that those who didn’t like it were awful working class Nazis, and they gaslit kids into thinking it was the end of civilisation as we know it to pull out.

yes bureacracy - how many forms do the lorries parked in the toilet of England need? at least 11 I heard

 

[RossyG]

yes bureacracy - how many forms do the lorries parked in the toilet of England need? at least 11 I heard

The toilet of England? Selhurst?

And eleven forms? Huh?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Yup. I was a regular contributor to the Brexit thread for a year or so (maybe longer ?). I made the arguments and answered all questions extremely politely and reasonably. Unfortunately there are a number of Remain posters ( by no means all) who responded with patronizing elitism or outright abuse. The attitude was that anyone who voted leave was stupid and did not understand the issues. I stopped contributing to the Brexit thread. Some people just will not listen. Several of them have contributed to this thread. They expect people to keep answering the same questions and the moment you don’t repeat the answer for the umpteenth time the accusations of stupidity and avoidance get made. Not for me.

Ditto ....... and well said.

Ditto, ditto.

And I won't be getting drawn into anymore discussions on it. We move on and should do as one behind Britain the country we choose to live in.

'Rule, Brittania'

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I'll try and play although I suspect this won't last long. I was a 'reluctant leaver' and voted out :

1. We've been on the periphery of Europe for years. We are naturally isolated, ideologically different and all the EU seemed to bring was a succession of arguments. Having worked around Brussels for a bit, I could also see it was a gravy train in action. A political FIFA if you will. Back in the day I was pro Euro but no one argues that now, the 52-48 would have been a landslide if we'd have spunked German levels of funding propping Greece with the pound gone.
2. I didn't like the remain campaign at the time. Cameron got Obama to threaten us and even said we'd be less secure confusing the EU with NATO. Its the same coin as Trump in America. Biden got in on a message of 'Don't vote for him' but had little positive message of its own - he can count himself fortunate that Trump is such a ****. There was little positivety about what Europe had to offer - just a list of poorly constructed 'bad stuff' arguments. I'm not saying the leave campaign was great either but the remain campaign was bloody awful
3. I wasn't a fan of the ECHR and its over riding of the UK courts (which I am aware we will have to abide by anyway post Brexit so rendering it pointless).

Since then

1. I'm not pro EU as such but Brexit dominates the political landscape. Poiicy stacks up (such as domestic abuse bills etc) that we'd be better off passing but we've got bogged down in Brexit even before COVID kicked off. I'd rather we kicked Brexit into the long grass with its huge lorry parks and thought about feeding hungry kids instead for example. To go back to the FIFA example, I'm sure we'd all celebrate that crashing down but then I'm sure something equally shit would come along to replace
2. We've been lumbered with the worst government in my lifetime. Worst PM and worst home secretary. Raab isn't the worst foreign secretary but that's because of the shit for brains before him not because of any talent on his part. I even thought IDS sounded half decent the other day which shows how low the bar is now. They are a bunch of loyalist SPADbots without an ideological bone in thier body just naked ambition.
3. It should never have been a referendum in the 1st place. This X factor politics does my head in. The person with the regrets in all this should be Cameron who kicked this shit show off.