[Politics] Brexit

[peterward]

So let's just agree that

1, Many famers, like your relatives, struggle on very low margins.

2. Thus the subsidy - whatever its size - is vital.

3. It is not as big as the subsidy given to, say, the French.

4. In 2021, that subsidy is likely to disappear. (Not for the French.)

5. Not only that but frictionless trade in agri exports is likely to go and there will be fewer migrant workers to pick the crops.

6. This was something that the victims voted for.

7. This was largely because the French get more.

8. Farmers don't moan.

9. Because they voted for this, they certainly won't moan in 2021.

Honestly, I can see why some folk voted for Brexit, and I sympathise with anyone struggling to make a living, but I can't for the life of me understand this.

It's a ridiculous fudge and gargantuan waste of taxpayers money. So mainly the French can protect their way of life.

We give handouts to African nations and yet lock them out of our protectionist block to trade themselves out of lower living standards.

Farmers may have got used to subsidies to survive, but the whole system needs changing.

Legislate if you must a minimum price supermarkets must pay, left to free market economics they make the profits, farmers get nothing and governments then bail out farmers. And close off competition from outside.

Total top to bottom restructure. Paying 38% of the budget to uncompetitive farmers for uncompetitive and sometimes unused produce is obscene. The EU is a cumbersome uncompetitive protectionist racket.

 

[Klaas]

And, is it just me, or have NSC's Brexiteers all but disappeared off this thread now the talking bollox is over and things are actually starting to happen and the effects are slowly dawning on even the most elementary of them

And there you have in a nutshell why Brexit is just one great big ******* of a mess. For them, it's done, you lost, get over it, got our country back etc. The fact that brexit hasn't even really begun is of no interest to them now because it's all about the hard work and the detail. A few of them did pop in to question why this thread was still going, which just reinforces the point.
Throw in the racist brexiters too and it really is a rum bunch that has taken over the wheel of our country.

 

[Lever]

I think we are all rapidly learning that the 'normal rules' don't apply to this lot. I think the pre-election purge of the more decent wing of the Parliamentary party signalled that there are now no intra-party checks and balances. The huge Parliamentary majority ensured that there is not effective Opposition and the attacks on the media have further inched us towards somewhere unpleasant. That the likes of Patel and Williamson were re-instated to the Cabinet after previous sackings for serious misconduct is further evidence.
This is a foul government, led by the worst PM in living memory. If you elect (actually 'anoint' might be even better) a proven liar to the highest office in the land, then what do we expect? These are truly grim times.

Of course your comments are entirely accurate....
I have to add on the matter of the huge parliamentary majority that I am very angry at the opposition parties pre-election.
Is this Brexit outcome what Corbyn actually wanted? I have no idea. On Brexit he could scarcely have painted himself and the Labour Party into a tighter corner. Remain supporters knew he wanted Brexit, Brexit supporters already had a champion.... so on that matter what choice did Remain voters have?
Jo Swinson completely lost the support of those who wanted a final public say and the SNP (perhaps understandably) prioritised their own agenda.
The result is, as you say, the worst of all worlds and tragically the opposition parties need to take a large share of the blame.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And there you have in a nutshell why Brexit is just one great big ******* of a mess. For them, it's done, you lost, get over it, got our country back etc. The fact that brexit hasn't even really begun is of no interest to them now because it's all about the hard work and the detail. A few of them did pop in to question why this thread was still going, which just reinforces the point.
Throw in the racist brexiters too and it really is a rum bunch that has taken over the wheel of our country.

As one of my pupils said last week.

Brexiteers have their 'win', their tea towels, 50P pieces, have had their Big Ben Bong party and we have left the EU.

For everyone else, we are still paying into the EU, abiding by their rules and regulations and taking advantage of all the benefits of being members of the EU.

We are, just now, in the perfect situation, everyone has got what they think they wanted, and everyone's happy. Maybe we should just make the most of the next few weeks

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Of course your comments are entirely accurate....
I have to add on the matter of the huge parliamentary majority that I am very angry at the opposition parties pre-election.
Is this Brexit outcome what Corbyn actually wanted? I have no idea. On Brexit he could scarcely have painted himself and the Labour Party into a tighter corner. Remain supporters knew he wanted Brexit, Brexit supporters already had a champion.... so on that matter what choice did Remain voters have?
Jo Swinson completely lost the support of those who wanted a final public say and the SNP (perhaps understandably) prioritised their own agenda.
The result is, as you say, the worst of all worlds and tragically the opposition parties need to take a large share of the blame.

This LibDem member agrees. I am not going to resign though.

It's always better to try to change things from the inside.

 

[nicko31]

It's a ridiculous fudge and gargantuan waste of taxpayers money. So mainly the French can protect their way of life.

We give handouts to African nations and yet lock them out of our protectionist block to trade themselves out of lower living standards.

Farmers may have got used to subsidies to survive, but the whole system needs changing.

Legislate if you must a minimum price supermarkets must pay, left to free market economics they make the profits, farmers get nothing and governments then bail out farmers. And close off competition from outside.

Total top to bottom restructure. Paying 38% of the budget to uncompetitive farmers for uncompetitive and sometimes unused produce is obscene. The EU is a cumbersome uncompetitive protectionist racket.

Wow...

"minimum price supermarkets must pay", LOL

Will that apply to the Yanks as well?

What happened to cheap food, shoes and clothing? That was what we were promised, stop the war on the poor will you...

 

[peterward]

Wow...

"minimum price supermarkets must pay", LOL

Will that apply to the Yanks as well?

What happened to cheap food, shoes and clothing? That was what we were promised, stop the war on the poor will you...

You've completely twisted what i said out of context to create your own narrative.

We are not bound by the outrageous common agricultural policy when we leave, we can freely trade with the world and enjoy all of those benefits of free trade reducing consumer prices.

It was a suggestion for those stuck in the EU with the CAP draining 38% of the budget. How do you stop having to pay 38% of the EU budget to uncompetitive farmers? Either open markets to cheaper outside producers, or if you still dont want to do that then Maybe make supermarkets pay a min price for lots of unprofitable products like milk, because farmers are producing at almost cost, supermarkets make profit and EU bail out farmers with CAP.

It has nothing to do with the US. And opening markets will help the poor

This is thankfully what we are leaving behind. What I guess you supported?

 

[nicko31]

You've completely twisted what i said out of context to create your own narrative.

We are not bound by the outrageous common agricultural policy when we leave, we can freely trade with the world and enjoy all of those benefits of free trade reducing consumer prices.

It was a suggestion for those stuck in the EU with the CAP draining 38% of the budget. How do you stop having to pay 38% of the EU budget to uncompetitive farmers? Either open markets to cheaper outside producers, or if you still dont want to do that then Maybe make supermarkets pay a min price for lots of unprofitable products like milk, because farmers are producing at almost cost, supermarkets make profit and EU bail out farmers with CAP.

It has nothing to do with the US. And opening markets will help the poor

This is thankfully what we are leaving behind. What I guess you supported?

The current arrangement isn't perfect, it might be one of the few areas that Brexit might deliver some benefit

But I am very intrigued about this land of utopia, which country do you think we should be trying model going forward? Which food standards do you think we should ditch?

 

[A1X]

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[nicko31]

[TWEET]1234501164818931715[/TWEET]

Relax everyone, the easiest deal in history will soon be concluded...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The current arrangement isn't perfect, it might be one of the few areas that Brexit might deliver some benefit

But I am very intrigued about this land of utopia, which country do you think we should be trying model going forward? Which food standards do you think we should ditch?

It might deliver some benefit if the government had any idea of what to legislate for farmers and landowners.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/brexit-leaving-eu-farming-agriculture

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]1234768357615980546[/tweet]

Oh for Truss sake.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

This is thankfully what we are leaving behind. What I guess you supported?

The CAP always needed reform. I remember that from economics lectures decades ago. If we had put the effort into reform that we are putting into ditching the whole shebang it would have been reformed decades ago. It is not sufficient an argument for ditching all the other benefits of membership. In my opinion like.

And it is daft to think that anyone who thinks it is an act of national stupidity to leave the EU agrees with every aspect. That's not life.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The CAP always needed reform. I remember that from economics lectures decades ago. If we had put the effort into reform that we are putting into ditching the whole shebang it would have been reformed decades ago. It is not sufficient an argument for ditching all the other benefits of membership. In my opinion like.

And it is daft to think that anyone who thinks it is an act of national stupidity to leave the EU agrees with every aspect. That's not life.

That's exactly what the EU started doing in 2018.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farm...cies/common-agricultural-policy/future-cap_en

 

[Mo Gosfield]

You've completely twisted what i said out of context to create your own narrative.

We are not bound by the outrageous common agricultural policy when we leave, we can freely trade with the world and enjoy all of those benefits of free trade reducing consumer prices.

It was a suggestion for those stuck in the EU with the CAP draining 38% of the budget. How do you stop having to pay 38% of the EU budget to uncompetitive farmers? Either open markets to cheaper outside producers, or if you still dont want to do that then Maybe make supermarkets pay a min price for lots of unprofitable products like milk, because farmers are producing at almost cost, supermarkets make profit and EU bail out farmers with CAP.

It has nothing to do with the US. And opening markets will help the poor

This is thankfully what we are leaving behind. What I guess you supported?

The two biggest problems we have in the UK Food Trade is contract pricing to supermarkets, which commits our producers to long term volumes at low margin and cheap imports from the EU, as a result of animal welfare standards that are lower in some countries than the UK. e.g Bacon from Holland, Eggs from France, Belgium and Holland. Supermarkets argue that the consumer wants a consistent price and our producers are held to ransom. They negotiate a rock bottom price at the outset and are then guaranteed that for anything from 6 to 24 months, irrespective of the market. With the dairy industry, which is particularly sensitive, I would much prefer a minimum profit margin guarantee, fixed for all producers. An industry standard that all producers can use to plan long term and grow rather than be totally in the clutches of the supermarkets.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1234501164818931715[/tweet]

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/sturdyalex/status/1234798246570098688?s=21

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And, is it just me, or have NSC's Brexiteers all but disappeared off this thread now the talking bollox is over and things are actually starting to happen and the effects are slowly dawning on even the most elementary of them

It's more that we're bored of the bollox ( to use your word ) predictions when you have no idea what deal will be struck. So therefore we've left the doomsayers to their own echo chamber .... enjoy

 

[nicko31]

It's more that we're bored of the bollox ( to use your word ) predictions when you have no idea what deal will be struck. So therefore we've left the doomsayers to their own echo chamber .... enjoy

It is hard to predict just how severe the trade sanctions will be that the UK will impose on ourselves

While you're on, what are we going to sell to the US after an FTA we don't already sell now? It has to be more than a decades worth of GDP from Bury surely?

 

[The Clamp]

It's more that we're bored of the bollox ( to use your word ) predictions when you have no idea what deal will be struck. So therefore we've left the doomsayers to their own echo chamber .... enjoy

Really unconvincing

You lot just don’t have the spine for the truth. Now THAT was predictable.