[Politics] Brexit

[BensGrandad]

I said that 54% of the electorate voted for remain or a soft Brexit. Labour’s manifesto rejected no deal’ as a viable option. Either way, it doesn’t change the fact that at the EU elections the majority of electorate voted in favour of remain parties.

Hard or soft or even no deal did not come in to the equation it was just remain or leave.

 

[Grombleton]

I remember why I don't read this thread. Sanctimonious my friend, is people that do not accept democracy and the fact WE WILL leave whether you like it or not.

Yeah, as Boris has decided that democracy isn't worth a dime by proroguing parliament to suit his agenda...

 

[Is it PotG?]

So you're happy with everything that is happening right now and support Johnson in his actions? Fine. Let's workshop this.

The UK has had a referendum and voted to join the Single Market. The Single Market campaign had basically outlined EFTA as what would happen. Suddenly, on the verge of it happening, new Prime Minister Anna Soubry has decreed that actually what people voted for was full EU membership including the Euro and Schengen, we'll be joining on 31st October and she's shutting down Parliament to prevent them doing anything to row back from that position.

You cool with that?

That went wrong with 'Let's workshop this'.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Yeah, as Boris has decided that democracy isn't worth a dime by proroguing parliament to suit his agenda...

Last word from me here. Parliament are refusing to get out of the EU, 40 odd million people had the opportunity to vote. 51% asked to leave. Johnson is now doing OUR bidding and NOT 650 w**kers in the chamber that are looking at self interest.

 

[A1X]

Hard or soft or even no deal did not come in to the equation it was just remain or leave.

Indeed, so we have to go with the official Leave campaign's version of events.

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...inal/1463496002/Why_Vote_Leave.pdf?1463496002

I refer you to point 4 on page 11.

 

[A1X]

That went wrong with 'Let's workshop this'.

Did you not fancy the prospect of thinking about things in a non-binary way?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Did you not fancy the prospect of thinking about things in a non-binary way?

No, I simply don't do w@nk-speak.

 

[A1X]

No, I simply don't do w@nk-speak.

OK fine. So are you going to answer the question?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Hard or soft or even no deal did not come in to the equation it was just remain or leave.

Viewing something so complex in such a simplistic way is the reason we’re in this mess.

 

[Is it PotG?]

OK fine. So are you going to answer the question?

Ask a simple question, I'll give it a bash.

 

[A1X]

Ask a simple question, I'll give it a bash.

The UK has had a referendum and voted to join the Single Market. The Single Market campaign had basically outlined EFTA as what would happen. Suddenly, on the verge of it happening, new Prime Minister Anna Soubry has decreed that actually what people voted for was full EU membership including the Euro and Schengen, we'll be joining on 31st October and she's shutting down Parliament to prevent them doing anything to row back from that position.

You cool with that?

That's a simple question. Answer it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

That's a simple question. Answer it.

Anna is the PM? So it's hypothetical, not a straightforward question?

 

[A1X]

Anna is the PM? So it's hypothetical, not a straightforward question?

Anyone would think you were dodging it because you know we'll be calling you out as either a hypocrite or a liar the minute you answer.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Anyone would think you were dodging it because you know we'll be calling you out as either a hypocrite or a liar the minute you answer.

Or even someone after a sensible, relevant question. Either either.

 

[A1X]

Or even someone after a sensible, relevant question. Either either.

More stalling.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I was referring to the same election you were, the 2017 general election where over 80% of the electorate voted for pro-Leave parties. Funnily enough, the BBC has had to correct their inaccurate graph supposedly showing Remain parties eclipsing Leave parties during the EU elections ...

Inaccurate

Accurate

https://pressgazette.co.uk/bbcs-eu-...xit-parties-was-lapse-of-editorial-standards/

The graphics still shows that the majority of people voted for remain or soft Brexit, which was my initial point. Parties with a ‘hard Brexit’ line only gained roughly 35% of the overall vote. The first graphic shows you that 5.9 million voted unambiguously pro-Brexit and 6.8 million voting for remain parties.

The tricky part of course, is that it can be argued that both main parties retain some support across the Brexit divide. Various pollsters came up with their own formula for how to account for those who stubbornly stuck to the traditional two main parties post election. Many suggested that Tory voters were 80% pro-leave and that a majority of Labour voters – 60% – supported remain.

That yields 2.1 million more for leave composed of 1.2 million Conservatives and 938,000 Labour voters and 1.7 million more for remain made up from 302,000 Tories and 1.4 million for Jeremy Corbyn’s party. Applying that to the totals would produce 8.1m votes for leave and 8.7m to remain.

Or to put that another way: 47% for leave and a fraction over 50% for remain (the exclusion of minor parties with less than 100,000 votes nationwide is why the figures don’t add up to 100%): a narrow remain win by 586,000 votes.

 

[The Rivet]

Remainers...........

Leavers............


On this thread I am drowning in a sea of remainer tears and pram toys!

Good enough to bounce!

 

[Grombleton]

Last word from me here. Parliament are refusing to get out of the EU, 40 odd million people had the opportunity to vote. 51% asked to leave. Johnson is now doing OUR bidding and NOT 650 w**kers in the chamber that are looking at self interest.

Is it self-interest, or are they looking for the other 49%?

That's largely the issue here - if it were a landslide for either side then the opposing side wouldn't really have a leg to stand on - but the fact the margins were pretty close, either side is going to feel hard done by and ostracised by whatever happens.

Good enough to bounce!

Aww, having to quote yourself? Cute, in a way.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Double check? And say it goes slightly Remain to make it 1 all, where do we go next? Best of 9? Just Remain delaying, scuppering and sabotaging to hope it will simply go away and we stay in. Highly unlikely long term I would venture.

That just highlights the shortcomings of the original referendum. Such things - to make such a major change - would normally require more than just a simple majority, if only to make sure it is really what people want.

So if there were second vote and it went narrowly Remain arguably it would make things worse. The Tories got it wrong in 2016 for the original referendum and have continued to make it worse ever since. ….. unless you think that Johnson is uniting the country.

 

[The Rivet]

Is it self-interest, or are they looking for the other 49%?

That's largely the issue here - if it were a landslide for either side then the opposing side wouldn't really have a leg to stand on - but the fact the margins were pretty close, either side is going to feel hard done by and ostracised by whatever happens.




Aww, having to quote yourself? Cute, in a way.

You taking blood pressure tablets yet?
This thread is a dantes inferno of sorrow. A biblical imagery of 'victims' striken down the 3yr avenue route. The gates to Rome are open and the final stretch of the Apian Way welcomes all those that distort democracy in favour of foreign interference.......