[Politics] Brexit

[theonlymikey]

I think you are almost certainly spot-on. Locally is there any discussion about the Freeport? Is it unicorn-fodder? It all raises the question of why oh why did folk in places like this vote for Brexit? What on earth did they think it would deliver? Surely they were not voting on account of the jurisdiction of the ECJ or the Qualified Majority Voting arrangements within the Council of Ministers? They must have thought that somehow it would make them better off. If so, then it's as good an illustration of false consciousness as can be imagined.

I don't really know a lot about BJs plans for Freeports other than he wants one.

Either way, apparently Teesside applied for Freeport status long before BJ had a sniff at being PM.

This article certainly outlines what it could mean for the area...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...news/free-port-status-could-make-14134793.amp

As for why people voted for it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's complex. It comes down mostly to lies and misconceptions. Add in a little bit of "protest vote" and it's a cocktail for leave.

I think SSI was a huge factor. A lie was circulated that the steel plant could not be saved due to competition rules imposed by the EU. The myth was debunked but mud sticks and the damage was done.

There is a massive Muslim and Asian community here. It would be naive of me to say this didn't play some part.

Amongst all that, This in an area already dealing with high levels of poverty, drug and alcohol addiction, unemployment and teensge pregnancies. Throw in generations of governments forgetting the North exists and I think people were sick of it.

The establishment chose to campaign to remain, and voters stuck two fingers up. Leave campaign got the ive got nothing to lose votes, the protest votes, the racist vote and the votes recalled by lies.

As for the Boro, Steve's been sticking his hand in his pocket for years to keep us afloat. Fans are dwindling and prices are rising. It's not great. It's the same up and down the country. Really sad.

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[Baldseagull]

should the EU give a little if it helps lessen impact of recession, if they believe Johnson will follow through and leave otherwise?

The EU should offer a further extension, but beyond that, I can't see what else they can do. The EU offered a different relationship for N. Ireland, to keep it in the single market and customs union effectively, but the DUP said they would feel less British if there were customs checks between UK and N.I., that's when our negotiators came up with the backstop.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Boris Johnson's letter today must be considered the final nail in the coffin of the idea that BJ wants a deal. He must be removed.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Well the jobs in those areas are already hemorrhaging, due to the shambles we've made of the whole thing so far. Many of them will not be coming back, regardless of the path we take.

People are already taking second jobs. The lad from Luton with the Italian family thinks this is good thing. It isn't. People working full time jobs shouldn't need to serve coffees in the evening to make ends meet - suffering in their own work / life balance as well as removing work opportunity for others further down the pecking order.

People in the Tory party right now are breezily declaring that people are going to have to accept working into their dotage. None of this is made up.

This is real. People's lives are not being improved by this. far from it.

No time scale though ? look no further than MP s with an agenda for all the shit , if they had respected their constituents wishes it wouldn't have dragged on like it has
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Boris Johnson's letter today must be considered the final nail in the coffin of the idea that BJ wants a deal. He must be removed.

Why , the vote Was to leave and that's what he's going to do , you can't have everything your own way in life , fall in line and get on with your life
regards
DR

 

[daveinplzen]

No time scale though ? look no further than MP s with an agenda for all the shit , if they had respected their constituents wishes it wouldn't have dragged on like it has
regards
DR

Youre right, those pesky ERG Tories, and the nuisance that is the DUP. Basically, leavers dont know their ****ing arses from their elbows. Thanks for ****ing up the country.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Why , the vote Was to leave and that's what he's going to do , you can't have everything your own way in life , fall in line and get on with your life
regards
DR

I'm not happy with the PM telling bare faced lies and destroying the reputation of our country to future trading partners. That's where I am with it all. If we Leave then fine but our the leader of the Tories is a liar.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The EU should offer a further extension, but beyond that, I can't see what else they can do. The EU offered a different relationship for N. Ireland, to keep it in the single market and customs union effectively, but the DUP said they would feel less British if there were customs checks between UK and N.I., that's when our negotiators came up with the backstop.

People like you are the problem ," further extension" no thanks the stalling is comming to an end the country needs to move on , deal with it and stop living in denial
regards
DR

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I don't really know a lot about BJs plans for Freeports other than he wants one.

Either way, apparently Teesside applied for Freeport status long before BJ had a sniff at being PM.

This article certainly outlines what it could mean for the area...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...news/free-port-status-could-make-14134793.amp

As for why people voted for it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's complex. It comes down mostly to lies and misconceptions. Add in a little bit of "protest vote" and it's a cocktail for leave.

I think SSI was a huge factor. A lie was circulated that the steel plant could not be saved due to competition rules imposed by the EU. The myth was debunked but mud sticks and the damage was done.

There is a massive Muslim and Asian community here. It would be naive of me to say this didn't play some part.

Amongst all that, This in an area already dealing with high levels of poverty, drug and alcohol addiction, unemployment and teensge pregnancies. Throw in generations of governments forgetting the North exists and I think people were sick of it.

The establishment chose to campaign to remain, and voters stuck two fingers up. Leave campaign got the ive got nothing to lose votes, the protest votes, the racist vote and the votes recalled by lies.

As for the Boro, Steve's been sticking his hand in his pocket for years to keep us afloat. Fans are dwindling and prices are rising. It's not great. It's the same up and down the country. Really sad.

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Many thanks for this. On the hindsight point is I wonder if there was anything the Remain campaign could have done differently to connect with voters in this sort of constituency? The key issue for me on this point is the worse they painted it, the more they became vulnerable to the Project Fear b*llocks from the other side. This is important if there is a 2nd referendum...………………….. a re-run of the two campaigns might simply lead to a re-run of the original result.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm not happy with the PM telling bare faced lies and destroying the reputation of our country to future trading partners. That's where I am with it all. If we Leave then fine but our the leader of the Tories is a liar.

You're entitled to your opinion but we're leaving as instructed its not rocket science you've had plenty of time to accept it unfortunately for you and others on here you've chosen to bury your heads in the sand hoping that a few snide people in Parliament and the media could somehow convince people that the vote shouldn't be upheld

,it's utter nonsense and undemocratic and would hold serious consequences for democracy in this country that's why the Torys know they have to be seen to be upholding the Referendum result or face being completely destroyed at the ballot box
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Youre right, those pesky ERG Tories, and the nuisance that is the DUP. Basically, leavers dont know their ****ing arses from their elbows. Thanks for ****ing up the country.

Bore off Dave ,carry on living in denial despite the fact you dont live here
regards
DR

 

[Exile]

No time scale though ?
regards
DR

The 'time scale' is NOW, you absolute moron.

The jobs have gone. The decisions have been taken for more to go.

Now.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The 'time scale' is NOW, you absolute moron.

The jobs have gone. The decisions have been taken for more to go.

Now.

I know that but what about the future no one likes to see people losing their jobs but we've had peoe losing their jobs through recessions, nothing to do with the EU
regards
DR

 

[CHAPPERS]

You're entitled to your opinion but we're leaving as instructed its not rocket science you've had plenty of time to accept it unfortunately for you and others on here you've chosen to bury your heads in the sand hoping that a few snide people in Parliament and the media could somehow convince people that the vote shouldn't be upheld

,it's utter nonsense and undemocratic and would hold serious consequences for democracy in this country that's why the Torys know they have to be seen to be upholding the Referendum result or face being completely destroyed at the ballot box
regards
DR

The agreement with the backstop upholds the referendum result more than No Deal but the Tories couldn't get their collective act together to vote for it.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The agreement with the backstop upholds the referendum result more than No Deal but the Tories couldn't get their collective act together to vote for it.

Well, we will see how that pans out shortly
Regards
DR

 

[theonlymikey]

Many thanks for this. On the hindsight point is I wonder if there was anything the Remain campaign could have done differently to connect with voters in this sort of constituency? The key issue for me on this point is the worse they painted it, the more they became vulnerable to the Project Fear b*llocks from the other side. This is important if there is a 2nd referendum...………………….. a re-run of the two campaigns might simply lead to a re-run of the original result.

For the tories to get a remain vote in a place like this, they'd need to have common decency and the ability to put people before their party.

How do you fix a puzzle like this for example:

SSI is at risk. Thousands of people are about to lose their jobs. Brexit campaigning has yet to begin. The MP for Redcar calls on govt for help. Govt blames the EU for not being able to step in. Brexit campaigning commences.

A lot of people are me angry at the EU. Lots of people have lost their jobs, it's affected the area massively. What could the tories do?

They can A) Admit the truth that it was not the EUs rules that prevented the govt intervening. They couldnt do this. They would make themselves look terrible. B) Crack on leaving the misconception in place trying to persuade a lot of angry voters to vote remain regardless of what the 'EU did to them'. It was catch 22 for David and the remain campaign.

How about this one. How does a Tory remain campaign fix this puzzle?

Residents are angry that class sizes are becoming too large, homes becoming increasingly unavailable, rent and purchase prices sky rocketing due to demand, NHS waiting times are through the roof.

Enter Farage and his racist billboards and his little dinghy channel video. He says you Madam of Boro, are suffering as a result of overcrowding , all these brown people are putting a strain on your public services. Madam's like, a canny be avin this. these brown people need to go.

Meanwhile, call me Dave by this point has presided over 6 years of austerity, decimating public services.

Remain can A) tell the truth. I Dave PM and my government are the REAL reason you're angry about all this stuff. Unfortunately I've been stingy with the coffers and avent built any 'ouses. B) Hide the truth while simultaneously trying to pursade people to vote remain regardless of of all the brown people taking all the space. Again, a catch 22 for Dave and the tories.

If it wasn't the tories in charge, or If it wasn't for austerity. Brexit wouldn't have got off the ground. Unfortunately for us all, the tories were conflicted by personal interests and had to be careful what they said about leaving due to the perception this would have on their own party and subsequent future general elections.





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[Lever]

People like you are the problem ," further extension" no thanks the stalling is comming to an end the country needs to move on , deal with it and stop living in denial
regards
DR

What on earth do you mean by 'move on, deal with it and stop living in denial'? Is your philosophical perspective really that naive?

You really are at the intuitive stage of thinking.......

 

[daveinplzen]

What on earth do you mean by 'move on, deal with it and stop living in denial'? Is your philosophical perspective really that naive?

You really are at the intuitive stage of thinking.......

No, he hasnt reached that stage yet.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

No, he hasnt reached that stage yet.

Being a Nazi sympathizer he has not even accepted the end of the second world war yet, he may even still be fuming over the Treaty of the Union.

 

[Hampster Gull]

This is going well, glad it was sold as the easiest negotiation ever by the Brexiteer toffs, otherwise it might be quite difficult and our politicians might have looked like pond life