[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

She is very clear then, if there was another vote to leave she still would NOT vote in parliament after another referendum to accept the decision which that democratic vote gave.
Which is utterly perfect, if the politicians are openly going now going to say they will refuse to accept the outcome given by another referendum if they don’t like the answer given,(she will accept the decision given if its Remain)……then its pointless talking about or holding another democratic vote.

The undemocratic loons on here will not doubt be jumping to her defence. Some of them might even say they interpreted Farage as saying the same thing so its ok for her to say it because Farage said it too.

Ps. Why did they pick someone that looks like Rose West?

From this

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To this


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Farage will always believe in nationalism, Lib Dems will always believe in Europe.

Anyone would think you were worried about them the way you are carrying on...

 

[WATFORD zero]

She is very clear then, if there was another vote to leave she still would NOT vote in parliament after another referendum to accept the decision which that democratic vote gave.
Which is utterly perfect, if the politicians are openly going now going to say they will refuse to accept the outcome given by another referendum if they don’t like the answer given,(she will accept the decision given if its Remain)……then its pointless talking about or holding another democratic vote.

The undemocratic loons on here will not doubt be jumping to her defence. Some of them might even say they interpreted Farage as saying the same thing so its ok for her to say it because Farage said it too.

Ps. Why did they pick someone that looks like Rose West?

From this

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To this


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Calm down, a stupid person could think you are getting worried by what's happening.

Besides, you've got your Leave supporting PM, it will all be over on October 31st, we won't be in the EU and none of this will matter, will it

 

[Notters]

She is very clear then, if there was another vote to leave she still would NOT vote in parliament after another referendum to accept the decision which that democratic vote gave.
Which is utterly perfect, if the politicians are openly going now going to say they will refuse to accept the outcome given by another referendum if they don’t like the answer given,(she will accept the decision given if its Remain)……then its pointless talking about or holding another democratic vote.

The undemocratic loons on here will not doubt be jumping to her defence. Some of them might even say they interpreted Farage as saying the same thing so its ok for her to say it because Farage said it too.

Ps. Why did they pick someone that looks like Rose West?

From this

View attachment 113318


To this


View attachment 113319

And as has no doubt been stressed about a million times in this thread, 48% of those who voted wanted to keep the status quo. Do you really think it's likely that, of the 52% who voted leave, less than 2% would rather remain than have a catastrophic no deal? If not then remaining in the EU IS the democratic thing to do.

And I'm deliberately not mentioning all the fraud associated with the referendum which has since been exposed, which Paddy would not have been aware of.

Another referendum is needed to decide exactly what IS wanted by the public. And I suspect with the options laid bare, a majority would want remain.

 

[pastafarian]

The thing is, after listening to that clip...she really didn't openly say anything, did she? Nice bit of clickbait though, I see how its hooked a few people

Apart from where she openly said if another vote delivered another leave vote she wouldnt vote in parliament, following the vote, to respect the outcome of the vote.
If politicians now openly say they wont respect the outcome of a vote(if they dont like the answer given), should they decide to make us vote again, it makes a mockery of the democratic process and makes another vote pointless.
Welcome to the Lib Dem worldview.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

As has been pointed out numerous times before, the things that will be the biggest issues are

Building Customs posts at the hard border in NI
Building Lorry parks at all ports for checking imports
Defining, building and testing the new systems required to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures
Putting in the IT infrastructure to run the systems yet to be built
The largest recruitment and training programme in HMRCs history to get and train the staff to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures

With 3 months to go, how much of this do you think the politicians will be able to 'mitigate' by Oct 31st ? (You can assume for this that they cancel parliament's summer recess even though there is no sign whatsoever of that).

'Managed no deal'

I know someone (who knows someone) who works for Border Force in a south coast port.
Just before the first Leave Day I asked him how preparations were going. Did he anticipate huge queues incoming from France? "No", he replied. I was quite surprised as I thought it was too soon to have everything in place. "We've just been told to wave everyone through." Now that's what I call being fully prepared for a no-deal Brexit

 

[pastafarian]

And as has no doubt been stressed about a million times in this thread, 48% of those who voted wanted to keep the status quo. Do you really think it's likely that, of the 52% who voted leave, less than 2% would rather remain than have a catastrophic no deal? If not then remaining in the EU IS the democratic thing to do.

And I'm deliberately not mentioning all the fraud associated with the referendum which has since been exposed, which Paddy would not have been aware of.

Another referendum is needed to decide exactly what IS wanted by the public. And I suspect with the options laid bare, a majority would want remain.

As i keep saying, if you want the public to decide how we Leave the EU following the decision to Leave, then have a public vote on how we leave with choices of leaving with a deal or leaving with no deal.(no remain option needed)
This is now pointless though, as we have politicians openly saying they will not vote in parliament following another referendum for any decision the public vote returns if they disagree with the decision given.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I know someone (who knows someone) who works for Border Force in a south coast port.
Just before the first Leave Day I asked him how preparations were going. Did he anticipate huge queues incoming from France? "No", he replied. I was quite surprised as I thought it was too soon to have everything in place. "We've just been told to wave everyone through." Now that's what I call being fully prepared for a no-deal Brexit

Taking back control

But just to prove to [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] that it's not all doom and gloom, on the bright side the French won't have any more worries about new immigration camps starting up at Calais

 

[A1X]

I know someone (who knows someone) who works for Border Force in a south coast port.
Just before the first Leave Day I asked him how preparations were going. Did he anticipate huge queues incoming from France? "No", he replied. I was quite surprised as I thought it was too soon to have everything in place. "We've just been told to wave everyone through." Now that's what I call being fully prepared for a no-deal Brexit

I suppose there's a delicious irony that after years of people saying we should leave the EU because we supposedly couldn't control our borders our answer on Day 1 would be to throw open all the borders.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

it makes a mockery of the democratic process and makes another vote pointless.

Voting is the democratic process, that's why the 650 MP's (less the speakers and Sinn Fien MP's) have been voting to try and resolve this issue for 2-3 years now, it is our democratic process.

Parliament is split about the same as the country on Remain and Leave. Democratic voting is the only way to get it resolved and with a WORKING (DUP) majority of 2, the new PM may well need a national vote to try and break the impasse, however all the polls show it will return similar numbers. The polls and research even show splits on the way to resolve the issue.

Remain 54%, Leave 46%.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/WUKT-EU_Feb-19-Analysis-Paper_FINAL.pdf

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1153975617223823361[/TWEET]

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

As i keep saying, if you want the public to decide how we Leave the EU following the decision to Leave, then have a public vote on how we leave with choices of leaving with a deal or leaving with no deal.(no remain option needed)
This is now pointless though, as we have politicians openly saying they will not vote in parliament following another referendum for any decision the public vote returns if they disagree with the decision given.

It's interesting to see the signs of how the language of Brexit is changing. Two examples

1. the use of 'managed or orderly' Brexit as a substitute for a no deal Brexit (with hints that this will consist of a multitude of mini-agreements and protocols on a sectoral basis)

2. Ian Duncan Smith the other day was asked to comment on BJ's '1 in a million' chance of a no-deal Brexit. Ah, he said, Boris was referring to ……….(see above) i.e. redefining no deal somewhat.

The referendum questions you suggest above might need to be re-written along these lines:

1, An orderly and managed Brexit OR

2. A managed and orderly Brexit.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Apart from where she openly said if another vote delivered another leave vote she wouldnt vote in parliament, following the vote, to respect the outcome of the vote.
If politicians now openly say they wont respect the outcome of a vote(if they dont like the answer given), should they decide to make us vote again, it makes a mockery of the democratic process and makes another vote pointless.
Welcome to the Lib Dem worldview.

I assume that the JCPasta position on politicians such as - plucked out of the air - Bill Cash is that they are utterly reprehensible individuals simply because they have spent decades fighting against their country's position on Europe, even though that position was arrived at by proper democratic process.

If so that's another point of difference between us - I have a small soft spot for politicians who legitimately use the system to fight for what they believe, including the blazer brigade who have brought down every Tory leader in the last half century. It's the hypocrites I have a problem with.

 

[pastafarian]

Calm down, a stupid person could think you are getting worried by what's happening.

Besides, you've got your Leave supporting PM, it will all be over on October 31st, we won't be in the EU and none of this will matter, will it

I am calm, im not worried in the slightest. Every single outcome option is a win for those that do not want the UK to be a member of the European Union.
The remoaners wanting Brexit stopped and the decision to Leave abandoned are too short sighted to understand this.

Farage will always believe in nationalism, Lib Dems will always believe in Europe.

Anyone would think you were worried about them the way you are carrying on...

You mistake worry for laughing contempt and mockery.
There is nothing wrong with benign nationalism, in fact it is a very welcome trait in a healthy democratic nation.

 

[pastafarian]

I assume that the JCPasta position on politicians such as - plucked out of the air - Bill Cash is that they are utterly reprehensible individuals simply because they have spent decades fighting against their country's position on Europe, even though that position was arrived at by proper democratic process.

If so that's another point of difference between us - I have a small soft spot for politicians who legitimately use the system to fight for what they believe, including the blazer brigade who have brought down every Tory leader in the last half century. It's the hypocrites I have a problem with.

I missed the bit where Bill Cash said referendum outcomes may not be respected if you dont agree with the decision they give......care to share.

 

[nicko31]

[TWEET]1153975617223823361[/TWEET]

Lets just remember Boris's links with white supremacist Steve Bannon. Johnson branded it a "Lefty delusion".

https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1142694311647203328

We're heading for a dark place

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I missed the bit where Bill Cash said referendum outcomes may not be respected if you dont agree with the decision they give......care to share.

Respect. Such a strange word to keep throwing in, as if it gives your opinion some, wait for it, respectability.

Referenda in the UK are advisory, regardless of what any politician says or prints on leaflets. They are opinion polls and opinions change.

 

[CHAPPERS]

About time some of these centre right Tories did the decent thing and call this out for what it is.

oh yeah, Priti Patel is back

[tweet]1153926320222625793[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

It's interesting to see the signs of how the language of Brexit is changing. Two examples

1. the use of 'managed or orderly' Brexit as a substitute for a no deal Brexit (with hints that this will consist of a multitude of mini-agreements and protocols on a sectoral basis)

2. Ian Duncan Smith the other day was asked to comment on BJ's '1 in a million' chance of a no-deal Brexit. Ah, he said, Boris was referring to ……….(see above) i.e. redefining no deal somewhat.

Simply means managing and mitigating the circumstances of a no deal brexit where no withdrawal agreement is in place. Both sides have already been putting managing measures, protocols and sectoral mini-agreements in place should there be a no deal. It started a while back. Perhaps you would prefer no protocols are put in place at all to manage the event of leaving with no deal.

The referendum questions you suggest above might need to be re-written along these lines:

1, An orderly and managed Brexit OR

2. A managed and orderly Brexit.

No remain option then…….good for you.
Probably best to let parliament sort out how we leave though since the publics instruction to leave, rather than voting again. It is what the public understood would happen anyway following the one off referendum provided by the Referendum Act.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You mistake worry for laughing contempt and mockery.
There is nothing wrong with benign nationalism, in fact it is a very welcome trait in a healthy democratic nation.

Benign nationalism? It's like saying a wild tiger is just a domestic pussycat.

 

[nicko31]

About time some of these centre right Tories did the decent thing and call this out for what it is.

oh yeah, Priti Patel is back

[tweet]1153926320222625793[/tweet]

That's how you get promoted in the Tory party.

Wants to bring back the death penalty, impose food shortages on Ireland....

Lovely lady...