[Politics] Brexit

[clapham_gull]

Funny, most complaints you leavers have is about how the EU has changed us, supposedly against our will, despite struggling to come up with anything after we concede it was bad for our fishermen. Then after you get leavers to see that we will be worse off economically, have similar levels of immigration, if we have the work available, and have less effective sovereignty as we become lightweight in comparison to the EU, the thing they then come back with is the fear of all the changes that the EU has planned, like accepting Turkey as a member, being forced to take the Euro, an EU army, loss of Veto and all the other bullshit the leave campaign told you was on its way.
I love change, but only changes for the better, not for the worse. I am most keen on staying in the EU and effecting some changes within it, you defeatist leavers just don't believe in Britains ability to influence the EU.

Edit. Re. Risk adverse, not particularly, but it is normal to weigh the risk against potential reward, I see very little in the way of reward, in fact, nothing. I would love it if you had something you could share with us.

Glad you bothered. I read it as someone who thought "change" and "risk adversion" were a couple of urban dance acts managed by Simon Cowell.



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[Guinness Boy]

There is no such thing as a managed no deal.

Agreed, which is why I put it in inverted commas in the middle of a theoretical post.

But the closer we get to oblivion the more politicians on both sides will mitigate the things that are going to be the biggest issues. No one will say it but we already effectively have a managed no deal. We know the date it will happen. We know the contingency measures (or lack of them if you're Faling Grayling). We know we'll default to WTO terms. We know the EU are already putting aside money specifically to support Ireland. SImply crashing out at any given time with no support is what I would call unmanaged.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

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[Deleted member 22389]

The new Leader of the Bollox to Brexit party confirms she wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum if it was to leave and would try to block it. The undemocratic loon party plumbs new depths ... only accepts a democratic result if they get their way.



Someone really needs to report the Liberal 'Democrats' to the electoral commission about their name ...

What a Fing joke. This lot only appeal to the hardest of remainers. They are not going anywhere.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What a Fing joke. This lot only appeal to the hardest of remainers. They are not going anywhere.

You think? 3000 new members in the last two days.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Agreed, which is why I put it in inverted commas in the middle of a theoretical post.

But the closer we get to oblivion the more politicians on both sides will mitigate the things that are going to be the biggest issues. No one will say it but we already effectively have a managed no deal. We know the date it will happen. We know the contingency measures (or lack of them if you're Faling Grayling). We know we'll default to WTO terms. We know the EU are already putting aside money specifically to support Ireland. SImply crashing out at any given time with no support is what I would call unmanaged.

As has been pointed out numerous times before, the things that will be the biggest issues are

Building Customs posts at the hard border in NI
Building Lorry parks at all ports for checking imports
Defining, building and testing the new systems required to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures
Putting in the IT infrastructure to run the systems yet to be built
The largest recruitment and training programme in HMRCs history to get and train the staff to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures

With 3 months to go, how much of this do you think the politicians will be able to 'mitigate' by Oct 31st ? (You can assume for this that they cancel parliament's summer recess even though there is no sign whatsoever of that).

'Managed no deal'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I repeat the passage from the article below because it is seldom that you see such a summary of common sense in just one paragraph.

"Over many years, Brexiters constructed a fable that presents the UK as the helpless victim of an unaccountable bureaucracy in Brussels. Their version of history has become ever more at odds with reality. Brave Britannia is increasingly portrayed as a heroic underdog determined to fight for its independence from Europe. It matters not a jot that the organisation from which the UK is purportedly seeking to escape is a decent grouping of democratic nations that the UK willingly joined, which it helped significantly to shape and of which at least half the British people now very much wish their country to remain a member."

Bobby McDonagh, an Irish politician in the EU, an opinion in the Guardian yesterday.
Far from being law takers, the British have led most of the EU projects, but the Murdoch press would have you believe otherwise.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As has been pointed out numerous times before, the things that will be the biggest issues are

Building Customs posts at the hard border in NI
Building Lorry parks at all ports for checking imports
Defining, building and testing the new systems required to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures
Putting in the IT infrastructure to run the systems yet to be built
The largest recruitment and training programme in HMRCs history to get and train the staff to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures

With 3 months to go, how much of this do you think the politicians will be able to 'mitigate' by Oct 31st ? (You can assume for this that they cancel parliament's summer recess even though there is no sign whatsoever of that).

'Managed no deal'

Parliament is only sitting for 35 days between now and Oct 31st.
So many civil servants has been decimated, there's nobody left to do any work.

 

[Dave the OAP]

As has been pointed out numerous times before, the things that will be the biggest issues are

Building Customs posts at the hard border in NI
Building Lorry parks at all ports for checking imports
Defining, building and testing the new systems required to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures
Putting in the IT infrastructure to run the systems yet to be built
The largest recruitment and training programme in HMRCs history to get and train the staff to operate the 'no deal' tariffs and procedures

With 3 months to go, how much of this do you think the politicians will be able to 'mitigate' by Oct 31st ? (You can assume for this that they cancel parliament's summer recess even though there is no sign whatsoever of that).

'Managed no deal'

On my LinkedIn page last night I was left a message by some recruiter who I phoned at 8 oclock this morning and turns out that as my position of Global Change Manager sounded impressive to them ( I have no idea why) but more the fact I have been doing change management for 15 years + HMRC are looking to recruit people with my experience as they are in the do do. If I wasn’t 61 this year I would have thought seriously about it, but travelling to London every day is not my idea of fun.

When I cheekily asked about the package, he said they were offering silly money just to get people in.

Brexit bonanza for all the contractors and consultants out there.

 

[WATFORD zero]

On my LinkedIn page last night I was left a message by some recruiter who I phoned at 8 oclock this morning and turns out that as my position of Global Change Manager sounded impressive to them ( I have no idea why) but more the fact I have been doing change management for 15 years + HMRC are looking to recruit people with my experience as they are in the do do. If I wasn’t 61 this year I would have thought seriously about it, but travelling to London every day is not my idea of fun.

When I cheekily asked about the package, he said they were offering silly money just to get people in.

Brexit bonanza for all the contractors and consultants out there.

I did post it on here at the time, but as of a couple of years ago, the vast majority of contracts the civil service hand out are now 2 year fixed term contracts.

However, if you work for DExEU, it's a full time contract. I've had a few 'Job for life' sarcastic texts since.

Good decision, I think that less work, less commuting and more Golf is what will make Dave happy

 

[ManOfSussex]

That can't be right ... according to some on here, Brexit is just an English nationalist, public school, Conservative and Unionist party, gammon, Etonian <insert trope here> project. It can't be true that Wales voted to leave as did over a million Scots ... can it.

Help me out here then Footy Genius. For example:

How exactly are the circa 70% of Welsh benefit claimants from post industrial areas in South Wales who voted for Brexit going to be better off in the future under an English nationalist, public school, Conservative and Unionist party, gammon, Old Etonian, oddball right wing project from London? (Turkeys and Christmas spring to mind here.)

How exactly are the 30% of SNP voters who voted for Brexit going to be better off under an English nationalist, public school, Conservative and Unionist party, gammon, Old Etonian, odball right wing project from London? (At least the contemptuous feelings are mutual here, so those 30% can join their remain voting compatriots and vote to leave another union.)

(I also note you omitted Northern Irish leave voters from your straw clutching - quite rightly too - it's rather obvious that the large swathes of the Nationalist community that voted for Brexit have never been of interest to English nationalist, public school, Conservative and Unionist party, gammon, Old Etonian, oddball right wingers and any Unionists who voted likewise are expendable as well now and can be sold down the river with them.)

 

[Klaas]

You think?

bashldir? No, never.

 

[Eeyore]

Thought provoking article in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...azcftNSWsB7RgFeXyvpJDgAMQTXArU2wognfPzv2OHgiI

 

[ManOfSussex]

You think? 3000 new members in the last two days.

Up to 120k. Only 40k or so members less than the Tories now.

[tweet]1153655261283926016[/tweet]

 

[nicko31]

Up to 120k. Only 40k or so members less than the Tories now.

[tweet]1153655261283926016[/tweet]

A lot of moderate Tories are finding a home, they want nothing of a right wing sect cosying up with a crypto fascist in Washington

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I did post it on here at the time, but as of a couple of years ago, the vast majority of contracts the civil service hand out are now 2 year fixed term contracts.

However, if you work for DExEU, it's a full time contract. I've had a few 'Job for life' sarcastic texts since.

Good decision, I think that less work, less commuting and more Golf is what will make Dave happy

I retired in 2014 but it was 1 year fixed term contracts then. You'd barely trained someone and they'd gone.
They did sometimes do two one year fixed term contracts consecutively, which is how I got the job after moving south again, and someone got promoted so I managed to get a proper contract but not without doing another application, paper sift, and round of interviews.
What a waste of resources.

 

[Hampden Park]

I retired in 2014 but it was 1 year fixed term contracts then. You'd barely trained someone and they'd gone.
They did sometimes do two one year fixed term contracts consecutively, which is how I got the job after moving south again, and someone got promoted so I managed to get a proper contract but not without doing another application, paper sift, and round of interviews.
What a waste of resources.

box ticking shite TB

 

[pastafarian]

The new Leader of the Bollox to Brexit party confirms she wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum if it was to leave and would try to block it. The undemocratic loon party plumbs new depths ... only accepts a democratic result if they get their way.



Someone really needs to report the Liberal 'Democrats' to the electoral commission about their name ...

She is very clear then, if there was another vote to leave she still would NOT vote in parliament after another referendum to accept the decision which that democratic vote gave.
Which is utterly perfect, if the politicians are openly going now going to say they will refuse to accept the outcome given by another referendum if they don’t like the answer given,(she will accept the decision given if its Remain)……then its pointless talking about or holding another democratic vote.

The undemocratic loons on here will not doubt be jumping to her defence. Some of them might even say they interpreted Farage as saying the same thing so its ok for her to say it because Farage said it too.

Ps. Why did they pick someone that looks like Rose West?

From this




To this

 

[pastafarian]

I repeat the passage from the article below because it is seldom that you see such a summary of common sense in just one paragraph.

"Over many years, Brexiters constructed a fable that presents the UK as the helpless victim of an unaccountable bureaucracy in Brussels. Their version of history has become ever more at odds with reality. Brave Britannia is increasingly portrayed as a heroic underdog determined to fight for its independence from Europe. It matters not a jot that the organisation from which the UK is purportedly seeking to escape is a decent grouping of democratic nations that the UK willingly joined, which it helped significantly to shape and of which at least half the British people now very much wish their country to remain a member."

Bobby McDonagh, an Irish politician in the EU, an opinion in the Guardian yesterday.
Far from being law takers, the British have led most of the EU projects, but the Murdoch press would have you believe otherwise.

Its not as if someone who has spent much of his working life between being a bureaucrat in the European parliament, in EU commission cabinets, as the EU representative for Ireland and director general of the EU department of the Irish foreign ministry was ever not going to be biased towards the EU. This opinion piece by a hardline Europhile must have come as a total shock to you.



PS I didn’t willingly join the EU, in fact I was never asked via a vote if I wanted to join the EU or not. There was a vote to remain in the European Communities/common market years back after we had already joined, but only an idiot thinks they are the same thing. We have only ever had one referendum membership of the European Union and that gave a decision to Leave it.

 

[Grombleton]

She is very clear then, if there was another vote to leave she still would NOT vote in parliament after another referendum to accept the decision which that democratic vote gave.
Which is utterly perfect, if the politicians are openly going now going to say they will refuse to accept the outcome given by another referendum if they don’t like the answer given,(she will accept the decision given if its Remain)……then its pointless talking about or holding another democratic vote.

The thing is, after listening to that clip...she really didn't openly say anything, did she? Nice bit of clickbait though, I see how its hooked a few people