[Politics] Brexit

[Grombleton]

Well of course it's invisible, we're still in the United States of Europe.

I was referring to the fact that it was a lie, but you carry on.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I was referring to the fact that it was a lie, but you carry on.

So we won't save money by leaving the EU? Is that what you are getting at?

 

[Grombleton]

So we won't save money by leaving the EU? Is that what you are getting at?

How you managed to gleam that from my post, is a concept reserved for only the top scientists and researchers.

 

[Baldseagull]

Talking of scaremongering, let's not forget that more than one remainer on this thread said it's ''likely'' that people will die due to Brexit.

Jesus can't you all calm down?

I don't recall that statement being made without the qualification of it being a no deal Brexit. However, we know austerity has cost lives in the UK, and we know Brexit, in whatever form, is going to hit the public purse, can you not see how funding for better services is harder to get with Brexit?
At the end of the day, it is political choices on where to spend the money we have and how much to borrow, but Brexit adds pressure to those decisions.

Jesus, can't you see what a ****ing huge problem leaving the EU creates?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

How you managed to gleam that from my post, is a concept reserved for only the top scientists and researchers.

But you were referring to it being a fact it was a lie? Read your own post, are you now saying you didn't say that?

 

[Grombleton]

But you were referring to it being a fact it was a lie? Read your own post, are you now saying you didn't say that?

I'm referring to an original post of an invisible amount of money by also illustrating another time when an incorrect figure was used.

Please stop trying to put words into people's mouths to fit your ideals.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I'm referring to an original post of an invisible amount of money by also illustrating another time when an incorrect figure was used.

Please stop trying to put words into people's mouths to fit your ideals.

Sorry, can you just unscramble that garble you just spouted? You said 350 million was a lie, then you denied it, now you are talking bollocks. We really do pay that amount into the EU, that was never an issue. Where it went and the lies told about it was the issue. Do you not understand that much?

 

[Baldseagull]

So we won't save money by leaving the EU? Is that what you are getting at?

Absolutely, we won't save money by leaving the EU, overall, we will be worse off.

It's like me getting rid of my Van and thinking I will be better off because I am not paying for insurance and road tax, only trouble is, without the van, I am limited to only taking on the jobs I can get to on my bike with the small amount of tools I can carry in a back pack.

 

[Baldseagull]

Sorry, can you just unscramble that garble you just spouted? You said 350 million was a lie, then you denied it, now you are talking bollocks. We really do pay that amount into the EU, that was never an issue. Where it went and the lies told about it was the issue. Do you not understand that much?

We really do not pay £350 million a week, the rebate is applied before we make any payment.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Absolutely, we won't save money by leaving the EU, overall, we will be worse off.

It's like me getting rid of my Van and thinking I will be better off because I am not paying for insurance and road tax, only trouble is, without the van, I am limited to only taking on the jobs I can get to on my bike with the small amount of tools I can carry in a back pack.

I don't disagree but you are being short termist. Do you never envisage a time where we will stand on our own two feet, as we have done, literally through our whole history? Do you not see a long term plan where this country is an independent state doing business across the world on our own terms and not those dictated to us by unelected quangos in Belgium?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

We really do not pay £350 million a week, the rebate is applied before we make any payment.

So, we pay 350 million a week and they give us a third back. However that third back is dictated where it is spent by Brussels. We do not have control of it.

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't disagree but you are being short termist. Do you never envisage a time where we will stand on our own two feet, as we have done, literally through our whole history? Do you not see a long term plan where this country is an independent state doing business across the world on our own terms and not those dictated to us by unelected quangos in Belgium?

We stand on our own two feet now, but shoulder to shoulder with 27 others. For much of our history we traded on our terms, because we imposed our terms by force, we were a super power, we had an Empire on which the sun never went down. It isn't like that today, India and China are not going to shit themselves when we park a gunboat on their coast and let us take the piss these days, what will allow us to get good terms is by negotiating as a larger economic entity.
Take a look at an Atlas, we are a small landmass with little natural resources, what is it you think the rest of the world is so desperate to get from the UK? That stat of the most growth in the world coming from outside the EU, is not going to change, and we are going to get relatively smaller and smaller as the economies of China, India, Brazil etc grow, and we will be of less and less importance in the world. We really are not all that special these days, and will be less and less so.

The UK will not be holding elections for trade negotiators either, they will be unelected too, and they will be less experienced and fewer in number than the EU will have at their disposal, a benefit of pooling resources, is you can afford a bigger and better team.

 

[Baldseagull]

So, we pay 350 million a week and they give us a third back. However that third back is dictated where it is spent by Brussels. We do not have control of it.

No, we should pay about 350 million a week based on our GDP, but we have a rebate, so we pay 250 million a week, and they spend about a third of that in the UK.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

We stand on our own two feet now, but shoulder to shoulder with 27 others. For much of our history we traded on our terms, because we imposed our terms by force, we were a super power, we had an Empire on which the sun never went down. It isn't like that today, India and China are not going to shit themselves when we park a gunboat on their coast and let us take the piss these days, what will allow us to get good terms is by negotiating as a larger economic entity.
Take a look at an Atlas, we are a small landmass with little natural resources, what is it you think the rest of the world is so desperate to get from the UK? That stat of the most growth in the world coming from outside the EU, is not going to change, and we are going to get relatively smaller and smaller as the economies of China, India, Brazil etc grow, and we will be of less and less importance in the world. We really are not all that special these days, and will be less and less so.

The UK will not be holding elections for trade negotiators either, they will be unelected too, and they will be less experienced and fewer in number than the EU will have at their disposal, a benefit of pooling resources, is you can afford a bigger and better team.

Are we not the banking business centre of the world? There is quite a slush fund in that economy straight away. I don't really care much about our past in so much as I am not an appeaser for what we did. We will find our place in the world, which still has huge stock. We have been sliding down the scale for decades, but our stock as a nation is still high. We are still highly regarded. We, before the US joined, single handedly kept Hitler at bay, we stopped him taking over the western world, yet Europe treats us like something they wiped off their shoe. Back in the day when we wanted to join the Common Market, one voice kept us out, Charles de Gaulle. The same person that claimed victory in WW2. Yes, irony, I know. But from that time onwards it was clear that Europe wanted nothing to do with us. We voted in to a common market and we have voted out of a federal Europe. This was not envisaged in the 70s. I know, without doubt, we will suffer hardship outside the EU for the foreseeable future, but that just will not last. We have always been a stronger state without influence from outside our borders. The EU is trying to blackmail us, the unelected civil servants are trying to tell us how to run our country. The EU will not survive in its current form without reforms or our money. If anyone is chewing off their nose to spite their face, it is the EU, not us. They need us, they know it and yet they try to blackmail us, it really is a lose, lose situation for them.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No, we should pay about 350 million a week based on our GDP, but we have a rebate, so we pay 250 million a week, and they spend about a third of that in the UK.

And I refer you to what I said, exactly the same as you have posted back to me, but you forgot to acknowledge we don't spend that third, it is dictated by Brussels.

 

[Baldseagull]

And I refer you to what I said, exactly the same as you have posted back to me, but you forgot to acknowledge we don't spend that third, it is dictated by Brussels.

No it isn't, you seem to be insisting that we pay £350 Million a week, we don't. We pay around £250 Million a week, a third of that £250 million is then spent in the UK by the EU, so net, we pay about £170 Million a week.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No it isn't, you seem to be insisting that we pay £350 Million a week, we don't. We pay around £250 Million a week, a third of that £250 million is then spent in the UK by the EU, so net, we pay about £170 Million a week.

So basically, we are paying 250 mill and the EU is telling us what we spend when it comes back, so it may as well be 250 mill. By the way, where do you get the 250 from, please link it.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No it isn't, you seem to be insisting that we pay £350 Million a week, we don't. We pay around £250 Million a week, a third of that £250 million is then spent in the UK by the EU, so net, we pay about £170 Million a week.

I'll check the stats out later that you link me to, bed now

 

[Baldseagull]

Are we not the banking business centre of the world? There is quite a slush fund in that economy straight away. I don't really care much about our past in so much as I am not an appeaser for what we did. We will find our place in the world, which still has huge stock. We have been sliding down the scale for decades, but our stock as a nation is still high. We are still highly regarded. We, before the US joined, single handedly kept Hitler at bay, we stopped him taking over the western world, yet Europe treats us like something they wiped off their shoe. Back in the day when we wanted to join the Common Market, one voice kept us out, Charles de Gaulle. The same person that claimed victory in WW2. Yes, irony, I know. But from that time onwards it was clear that Europe wanted nothing to do with us. We voted in to a common market and we have voted out of a federal Europe. This was not envisaged in the 70s. I know, without doubt, we will suffer hardship outside the EU for the foreseeable future, but that just will not last. We have always been a stronger state without influence from outside our borders. The EU is trying to blackmail us, the unelected civil servants are trying to tell us how to run our country. The EU will not survive in its current form without reforms or our money. If anyone is chewing off their nose to spite their face, it is the EU, not us. They need us, they know it and yet they try to blackmail us, it really is a lose, lose situation for them.

We need each other, but it is us that will suffer the greatest decline from a separation. They are not trying to blackmail us, they just want to have a way of keeping the customs area secure, the problem is that we have treaty with Ireland that includes having an open border with them. If it was France wanting to leave, we would be in full agreement with the stance the EU is taking, which to be fair is nothing more than sticking to the rules that we helped create.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

We need each other, but it is us that will suffer the greatest decline from a separation. They are not trying to blackmail us, they just want to have a way of keeping the customs area secure, the problem is that we have treaty with Ireland that includes having an open border with them. If it was France wanting to leave, we would be in full agreement with the stance the EU is taking, which to be fair is nothing more than sticking to the rules that we helped create.

OK caught this before bed. Firstly, we are the second biggest market to Germany after the US. Do you really believe they will want border tariffs with their VWs and Mercs? It just will not happen. When we stop buying German cars their economy will take a huge hit, it will not happen. Economy drives nations, they won't take that hit. We are, for many countries a massive source of income. I agree the Irish border is a sticking point, but only because the EU will not play ball. If Irish problems started again it will be purely down to the EU. The countries that want to leave the union sadly can't. They are totally in debt to the EU, something the EU probably wanted in order to keep control. There is no democracy in Brussels, none whatsoever. I think the informed British public did exactly the right thing by getting away from that totalitarian rule. They may be able to hold small poor countries to ransom, they can't hold us to it.