[Politics] Brexit

[seagulls4ever]

In The UK? None whatsoever. It was to do with the Irish peace process though, as I say. Leave voters will think it was all about them and a lot of them, particularly those arrogant politicians without a plan he was referring to, couldn't care less about that anyway. The Irish border is just an inconvenience to them.

I've heard far worse from the ERG, DUP and cabinet ministers, such the foreign secretary comparing to The EU to the Soviet Union, but lets all get insulted by this, eh?. We're English and the whole world revolves around us and Brexit.

Such remarks are not needed to show solidarity and, in my view, make no deal more likely - which is of no benefit to the Irish border situation.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

plain talking is good, this goes bit further dont you think? its more of the same point scoring that seems to have replaced amicable politics.

I think he's just exasperated with the situation and can't be arsed anymore with pretending otherwise. If his choice of language helps focus a few minds in parliament as to the stakes and shakes them out of their complacent sleepwalking into a no-deal Brexit then so much the better. IMHO, like.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Regarding TM's pandering to the DUP. I am sick to death of the tail wagging the dog. It's been mentioned before, why doesn't she just say to them, "Back us or we will cut you adrift". They can have independence and remain in the EU. People forget the rest of Northern Ireland prefer TM's deall.

I know there are probably many reasons why she can't legally do this but it would be worth it to see their faces. Come to think of it I already know. I have never seen Arlene Foster smile.

They are like those small band of children at a kid's party. No matter what you do, they are never happy.

Bit of an empty threat when you consider that without the DUP, the Tory party cannot effectively govern and in all likelihood would trigger a general election.

The DUP is fairly insignificant anyway to the PM's own party rebels, not sure why she needs to give the DUP and ultimatum when its factions of her own party holding her to ransom.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Such remarks are not needed to show solidarity and, in my view, make no deal more likely - which is of no benefit to the Irish border situation.

As above, they were said alongside the Irish Taoiseach and were born out of total exasperation about what the UK is doing. It'll go down well in The Republic of Ireland and across Europe to those that heard them, although I do accept 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' will be angrily taking to the Daily Mail's readers comments section saying as a leave voter he's even more glad we're leaving and they should all remember the second world war and show us some respect etc.

 

[Dick Head]

Yes but he isn't referring to the 17.5 million, he is referring to Johnson, farridge, and the honourable member for the 1820's

That's not how it will be reported though.

 

[seagulls4ever]

As above, they were said alongside the Irish Taoiseach and were born out of total exasperation about what the UK is doing. They'll go down well in The Republic of Ireland and across Europe to those that heard them, although I do accept 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' will be angrily taking to the Daily Mail's readers comments saying as a leave voter he's glad we're leaving and they should remember the second world war etc.

I'm sure they will go down well in certain places. Again, it doesn't make them helpful, though.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Exactly what I've said all along. I voted 'Leave', but would have voted 'Remain' had FOM been restricted.

It just goes to show how inflexible the EU is, and how one decision 3 years ago would have most likely changed the way things are heading.

Like you say that decision not to give us anything, was probably the point where a lot of people made their final decision to vote Leave, me included. Things might have been different now.

 

[Berty23]

Why should the EU have given us everything we wanted? We behaved like a spoilt child. We get the rebate, we don’t have the Euro, we are not in schengen etc etc.

We could have controlled immigration far more than we do.

Why should the EU have caved in to yet more special pleading from us?

 

[A1X]

Exactly what I've said all along. I voted 'Leave', but would have voted 'Remain' had FOM been restricted.

It just goes to show how inflexible the EU is, and how one decision 3 years ago would have most likely changed the way things are heading.

Like you say that decision not to give us anything, was probably the point where a lot of people made their final decision to vote Leave, me included. Things might have been different now.

They didn't give the UK anything because the UK had power to impose it's own restrictions already to FOM, and indeed almost all other EU countries do. Why give someone something they already have?

 

[Dick Head]

Regarding TM's pandering to the DUP. I am sick to death of the tail wagging the dog. It's been mentioned before, why doesn't she just say to them, "Back us or we will cut you adrift". They can have independence and remain in the EU. People forget the rest of Northern Ireland prefer TM's deall.

I know there are probably many reasons why she can't legally do this but it would be worth it to see their faces. Come to think of it I already know. I have never seen Arlene Foster smile.

They are like those small band of children at a kid's party. No matter what you do, they are never happy.

She's lovely when she smiles.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Why should the EU have caved in to yet more special pleading from us?

To prevent us leaving?

Quite a big incentive. Having said that, I don't think they ever considered it likely that the UK would vote to leave, which is why they didn't give us much.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I'm sure they will go down well in certain places. Again, it doesn't make them helpful, though.

What would be helpful then? Have you got any great ideas? The people he's referring to haven't.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Exactly what I've said all along. I voted 'Leave', but would have voted 'Remain' had FOM been restricted.

It just goes to show how inflexible the EU is, and how one decision 3 years ago would have most likely changed the way things are heading.

They already were flexible, I cannot believe, even now people don't realise we didn't choose to use the controls on offer to us.

European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC allows an EU member state to repatriate EU nationals if they haven't found a job and cannot support themselves after 3 months. Other countries like Belgium enforce this, we never have. The Treaty of Accession also allows old member states to curb immigration rights from new member states; again a right the UK chose not to implement.

The Tories have promised immigration controls for a decade and not delivered. While EU immigration shrinks, not just because of Brexit, but because of native economies improving, our immigration from outside EU is at a 14 year high.

The elephant in the room as far as immigration goes, is that the economy needs it to increase. Anyone thinking post Brexit we suddenly have 'control' over immigration and that numbers will reduce is honestly living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Simster]

Why should the EU have given us everything we wanted? We behaved like a spoilt child. We get the rebate, we don’t have the Euro, we are not in schengen etc etc.

We could have controlled immigration far more than we do.

Why should the EU have caved in to yet more special pleading from us?

We've always had a difficult relationship even when in the EU, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve to have the right to refuse to implement some of this stuff you mention. We're not in Schengen but nor are Ireland. We're not in the Eurozone, but nor is Sweden. We get a rebate, but then we're massive net contributors.

Some of the Brexiteers on here are right to point out the inflexibility of the EU as a major weakness, and it's not like we haven't been proved right over some of it either. The € has been a car crash for some nations, and as for Schengen - how dare Angela Merkel blithely allow one million refugees into her country without consulting the rest of the EU? It was a disgusting vanity project at the cost of skilled and semi skilled labour all over the union. She created an enormous problem because the minute they were in, they could travel anywhere in the EU (and in Schengen, unchecked).

Yes, we've been awkward neighbours, but they are a fact of life everywhere. It's high time the EU realised that in some scenarios, one size doesn't fit all.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Such remarks are not needed to show solidarity and, in my view, make no deal more likely - which is of no benefit to the Irish border situation.

Solidarity - good choice of word. Resonates with Tusk's role in the fight against communism in Poland 40 years ago.

 

[A1X]

Brexiters:
"It's terrible that you say these nasty things about us!"

Also Brexiters:
"You are Hitler!"
"You are Stalin!"
"You are very stupid!"
"The French President is like a Nazi Concentration Camp Guard!"
"Businesses who speak up for the EU will be punished!"
"Belgium is not a real country!"
"Donald Tusk is a devilish, trident-wielding Euro-maniac!"
"Loads of MEPs are basically Nazis!"
"You can't even do blackmail properly!
You're Hitler (again)!"

 

[seagulls4ever]

What would be helpful then? Have you got any great ideas? The people he's referring to haven't.

You've spent our entire conversation avoiding the question, and now you're responding to the question with a question, again avoiding the question.

Unless the EU wants to make some concessions, I don't think there is really much to say that can be of benefit. But I can at least say excluding those remarks from his speech altogether would have been more helpful, although to be fair in the long term aren't going to make a difference to anything. They were deliberately confrontational, and the benefits of his remarks are contrary to what he has said his aims are. They're just pointless. Great if he wants to get 'one over' on certain politicians, or to be seen in a good light by some across Europe, but all the same pretty pointless.

I haven't been able to see anything other than a no deal or a second referendum for a while now, with no deal being most likely. And if there's a second referendum, I think the UK will vote to leave again.

 

[seagulls4ever]

We've always had a difficult relationship even when in the EU, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve to have the right to refuse to implement some of this stuff you mention. We're not in Schengen but nor are Ireland. We're not in the Eurozone, but nor is Sweden. We get a rebate, but then we're massive net contributors.

Some of the Brexiteers on here are right to point out the inflexibility of the EU as a major weakness, and it's not like we haven't been proved right over some of it either. The € has been a car crash for some nations, and as for Schengen - how dare Angela Merkel blithely allow one million refugees into her country without consulting the rest of the EU? It was a disgusting vanity project at the cost of skilled and semi skilled labour all over the union. She created an enormous problem because the minute they were in, they could travel anywhere in the EU (and in Schengen, unchecked).

Yes, we've been awkward neighbours, but they are a fact of life everywhere. It's high time the EU realised that in some scenarios, one size doesn't fit all.

Good post.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You've spent our entire conversation avoiding the question, and now you're responding to the question with a question, again avoiding the question.

Unless the EU wants to make some concessions, I don't think there is really much to say that can be of benefit. But I can at least say excluding those remarks from his speech altogether would have been more helpful, although to be fair in the long term aren't going to make a difference to anything. They were deliberately confrontational, and the benefits of his remarks are contrary to what he has said his aims are. They're just pointless. Great if he wants to get 'one over' on certain politicians, or to be seen in a good light by some across Europe, but all the same pretty pointless.

I haven't been able to see anything other than a no deal or a second referendum for a while now, with no deal being most likely. And if there's a second referendum, I think the UK will vote to leave again.

I agree with every word Tusk said though and honestly couldn't care less anymore at who is put out by it. Dublin and The EU have taken far worse, so good for him frankly.

It's The UK Government I'm afraid and Theresa May's red lines that are where the concessions are required, not The EU. Her red lines and arrangements as now in Northern Ireland are incompatible. No Brexiteer ever bothered to think of any of that before though - blame The EU and Dublin and to hell with The Good Friday Agreement is far easier.

6 pieces of primary legislation to pass, 600+ statutory, 15 or so international agreements to replicate, all the regulatory bodies to replicate and set up, all the infrastructure, systems and staffing levels to fill - all in 51 days. Never mind the fact the economic impact and what happens to our reputation of causing this and that us ripping up the Good Friday Agreement and going for no deal will turn us into a pariah in Washington, across Europe and beyond - so best of luck with no deal.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The EU gave immense concessions to Cameron.

Really ?? Gone on then, what were these 'immense' concessions ?