[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

I know what happened thanks. It was an advisory referendum, but it was often claimed not to be - after the referendum John Redwood claimed in parliament that it was not advisory. He was wrong. The government argued that the referendum gave the government the power to trigger Article 50 without a further vote in parliament, and the Supreme Court ruled against them. But that's all besides the point.

The point is that you have claimed that a promise (that the referendum would be non-binding) was broken. It wasn't.

It was binding. They changed the law in order to break that promise.

You can type out as many long winded answers as you like. That’s a fact. As you have agreed in your above post.

You’re not quite the full ticket are you, Son? Ha!

 

[The Clamp]

I fail to see that you can say that with any conviction or factual evidence. Financial bods disagree, as do business leaders. In 10 years we may look back and say it was the best move. Any other sentiments of doom or elation are equally 'suck it and see'.

Catastrophe? Not so sure.

You said financial bods disagree it’s gonna be a catastrophe.

Are people taking stupid pills on here today? Triggar and now you.
Jeez Louise!!

 

[Is it PotG?]

You said financial bods disagree it’s gonna be a catastrophe.

Are people taking stupid pills on here today? Triggar and now you.
Jeez Louise!!

Some 'City' folk I know think long term we may well be better off. None of them know this Louise though.

 

[Triggaaar]

It was binding. They changed the law in order to break that promise.

What are you claiming was binding? What are you claiming was promised?

You’re not quite the full ticket are you, Son? Ha!

You're just rude and a bit pathetic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I swore NEVER to vote for the political party that actively tried to DESTROY the Albion .... be it Bellotti, LDC, Norman Baker or the party in general who did NOTHING to bring LDC to heal.

You typed actively. One a point of pedantry, if you do nothing you’re not “actively tried to DESTROY the Albion”

Just sayin’

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Some 'City' folk I know think long term we may well be better off.

“think”, “may” - very reassuring for a sector which contributes about 30bn a year in taxes to the country.

 

[melias shoes]

History will show them to be utter fools.

We'll see. That's if it's given a chance.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I swore NEVER to vote for the political party that actively tried to DESTROY the Albion .... be it Bellotti, LDC, Norman Baker or the party in general who did NOTHING to bring LDC to heal. Maybe you weren't around during the wars but I really struggle to understand how anyone who was has forgiven them enough to vote for them ..... for heavens sakes, Baker was a minister very recently !

During the 1992 general election, Bellotti did canvassing not just in Eastbourne but in nearby constituencies too and actually knocked at our door with the local Lib Dem candidate. I was at school so our paths didn't cross, but my Mum spoke to him, quite politely apparently for a couple of minutes.

I take your point entirely on this though, however there are exceptions to every rule and I therefore think it would be difficult not to vote for Stephen Lloyd now if you lived in Eastbourne for example. A brilliant constituency MP par excellence.

When he was out of office 2015-2017 I heard that in places like the citizens advice bureau in Eastbourne, if there was a 'write to your MP' answer to a problem, they were saying 'write to your MP or Stephen Lloyd' not just because his successor Caroline Ansell was useless, but because Stephen Lloyd basically could not be stopped. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you live in Eastbourne, maybe you can write to Stephen Lloyd? They never took down the 'Stephen Lloyd welcomes you to the sunshine coast' poster on the way in on the train to Eastbourne during those 2 years either - a very handy reminder to a single mother jumping the ticket barrier on the way back to Hampden Park, stuck on the platform for hours waiting for a delayed train during the Southern Rail debacle that 'Mr Eastbourne' could have a better go at sorting it all out.

Plus he resigned the party whip to vote for The Withdrawal Agreement respecting exactly what his Brexit voting constituents voted for as well as you. Did your MP Dr Peter Kyle? Of course not. 'Mr Eastbourne' did for you though.

 

[attila]

Nigel Farage says the political elite want to stop Brexit. Rees Mogg and Johnson are the absolute epitome of the political elite, and they are in the forefront of the campaign to make it as extreme as possible. I think the world 'elite' must have changed its meaning while I wasn't looking. Amusing how so many people determined to be as English as possible have such difficulties with the language.

 

[oneillco]

Timing is interesting...

Agreed; it took a lot of blood and tears before the Good Friday Agreement was arrived at. Some people seem to imagine it's just a small Brexit inconvenience...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

During the 1992 general election, Bellotti did canvassing not just in Eastbourne but in nearby constituencies too and actually knocked at our door with the local Lib Dem candidate. I was at school so our paths didn't cross, but my Mum spoke to him, quite politely apparently for a couple of minutes.

I take your point entirely on this though, however there are exceptions to every rule and I therefore think it would be difficult not to vote for Stephen Lloyd now if you lived in Eastbourne for example. A brilliant constituency MP par excellence.

When he was out of office 2015-2017 I heard that in places like the citizens advice bureau in Eastbourne, if there was a 'write to your MP' answer to a problem, they were saying 'write to your MP or Stephen Lloyd' not just because his successor Caroline Ansell was useless, but because Stephen Lloyd basically could not be stopped. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you live in Eastbourne, maybe you can write to Stephen Lloyd? They never took down the 'Stephen Lloyd welcomes you to the sunshine coast' poster on the way in on the train to Eastbourne during those 2 years either - a very handy reminder to a single mother jumping the ticket barrier on the way back to Hampden Park, stuck on the platform for hours waiting for a delayed train during the Southern Rail debacle that 'Mr Eastbourne' could have a better go at sorting it all out.

Plus he resigned the party whip to vote for The Withdrawal Agreement respecting exactly what his Brexit voting constituents voted for as well as you. Did your MP Dr Peter Kyle? Of course not. 'Mr Eastbourne' did for you though.

And that's fair enough - I will just NEVER vote for a party that put an Albion fan behind bars and that tried to get someone charged because of a 'wanted' poster. They were lying cheating scum then, I've seen nothing to suggest they have changed ..... just ask the students about the promises around uni fees.

 

[cunning fergus]

Nigel Farage says the political elite want to stop Brexit. Rees Mogg and Johnson are the absolute epitome of the political elite, and they are in the forefront of the campaign to make it as extreme as possible. I think the world 'elite' must have changed its meaning while I wasn't looking. Amusing how so many people determined to be as English as possible have such difficulties with the language.

One swallow doesn’t make a summer, and whilst Brexit has its supporters from rich, powerful, privileged backgrounds if you think they represent the overall mass of leave supporters you are profoundly deluded.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ses-were-only-group-to-vote-to-stay-in-the-e/

The rich and powerful were the one group to overwhelmingly vote remain, we only need to look at the bulk of MPs in Parliament contorting themselves to prevent leave in anything close to meaningful terms to understand that.

Dennis Skinner has been in politics and Parliament long enough to know what the EU is, how it’s changed and what it means for those opposed to rapacious capitalism.

I will trust his view first, he speaks plain English.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agreed; it took a lot of blood and tears before the Good Friday Agreement was arrived at. Some people seem to imagine it's just a small Brexit inconvenience...

Agree.

 

[fanseagull]

I swore NEVER to vote for the political party that actively tried to DESTROY the Albion .... be it Bellotti, LDC, Norman Baker or the party in general who did NOTHING to bring LDC to heal. Maybe you weren't around during the wars but I really struggle to understand how anyone who was has forgiven them enough to vote for them ..... for heavens sakes, Baker was a minister very recently !

I was around and actively fighting during 'the wars'. I hated what they were doing and said so.... It was a regional rather a national issue and thankfully they have gone. In the national issues such as opposition to the Iraq invasion, I thought and think they were spot on. I cannot think of a political Party that has not offended me deeply over the years - but on national matters I agree with the Lib Dems. I can see why you don't though, even if you could get over the offensive behaviour of the ones you listed.

 

[fanseagull]

You think Malta was a country then?

Yes 2p I do. My father was stationed there throughout much of WW2 and always referred to it as a country as well.... the cap is all yours.

 

[cunning fergus]

As you know, I agree with a lot of what you say about the problems and issues, It's just the solution we disagree on. I am well aware that I am probably as entrenched (or maybe as lofty and well informed) as yourself in my views, but I really can't see what else would get us out of the current situation other than a second referendum.

Your absolutely right in that the 'fairness' of it will be critical, but using some sort of AV, with the widest (realistic) set of options, is the only way I can see out of this mess

Oh well, on the bright side, at least Cameron got to cover up the cracks in his party

I think the “solution” to addressing the schism that exists in the U.K. as a consequence of Brexit may well be a second referendum, however if it is about a deal plus remain, this will not do it. A successful remain vote will not heal the wound, it will simply be another cut that will deepen it.

As I have said before, in my view Brexit hasn’t created the wound, it always existed, the 2016 referendum merely exposed it. It was definitely made worse by the 2016 referendum and we are in the current bind because of it. Let’s be clear about this too, Parliament voted overwhelmingly for it because they thought they would win it, that’s how out of touch they are/were.

A second referendum then has to be about the final destination of the EU project, and this country’s commitment to it. Sitting in a half way house will not put the issue to bed, a vote to understand whether the country is fully committed to the project will.

We must determine whether we want full membership, the euro, schengen, handing over control of the country’s fiscal leavers to the ECB or not. If we don’t we walk away, fully out.

One of the major problems remainers have is dealing with this question, and it’s why Clegg and others scoffed at questions like the EU army etc. This takes the electorate for fools, the pro EU constituency need to shit or get off the pot, some on here like Bold Seagull are clear that is what they want.......what about you?

Anything other than dealing with this question is patronising procrastination.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

So who were the European 'countries' helping us in World War 2?We had some refugees from countries who had surrendered to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy,but I bet you can't name any governments supporting us,until at least 1944.

Greece fought one of the most bitter rearguard actions of the 2nd World War after comprehensively beating the Italians back into Albania. They also continued to fight against the Germans for the duration of the war even after sustaining incomprehensible hardship as a result of the occupation and resistance.

Do they count?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I swore NEVER to vote for the political party that actively tried to DESTROY the Albion .... be it Bellotti, LDC, Norman Baker or the party in general who did NOTHING to bring LDC to heal. Maybe you weren't around during the wars but I really struggle to understand how anyone who was has forgiven them enough to vote for them ..... for heavens sakes, Baker was a minister very recently !

I voted Labour in 1997 but apart from that I put my tick against the Lib Dems all through the war years. Surely the actions of one MP, especially on a local issue, shouldn't affect ones support for the principles and policies of the party they belong to?

 

[Baker lite]

Greece fought one of the most bitter rearguard actions of the 2nd World War after comprehensively beating the Italians back into Albania. They also continued to fight against the Germans for the duration of the war even after sustaining incomprehensible hardship as a result of the occupation and resistance.

Do they count?

They certainly did fight a marvellous rear guard, guerrilla war against the 1000 year Reich, the Germans haven’t stopped punishing them since.


On our way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[vegster]

Greece fought one of the most bitter rearguard actions of the 2nd World War after comprehensively beating the Italians back into Albania. They also continued to fight against the Germans for the duration of the war even after sustaining incomprehensible hardship as a result of the occupation and resistance.

Do they count?

Don't get sucked in by 2Profs, he obviously has no knowledge of what actually happened in WW2. Once the Nazi's occupied almost all of western Europe and put their own puppet governments in place it would have been impossible for ANY European government to support us.

It should be noticed that many people from the occupied countries escaped and joined either a national brigade or air squadron here in the UK to carry the fight on. The Free French government set up base here and urged and directed resistance against the Nazis and severely oppressed people did what they could to aid the allied effort.