[Politics] Brexit

[BigGully]

So which are you backing. TM's deal or 'No deal' ?

It's simple, I want a total 'cake and eat it' deal, full and unfettered access to the single market, whilst not having to adhere to the four EU four pillars, oh and I do not want to pay a divorce bill either and I will try my very best to show why this might be mutually beneficial.

But I am a pragmatist, it would be an ongoing assessment with a tipping point that might not make it worthwhile to try and strike a deal, then you walk away, dont ask exactly where that tipping point might be, as in all negotiation it's fluid, but at the end of it we have to uphold the referendum result and whatever the end deal might be it has to represent a tangible exit from the EU.

 

[The Clamp]

Farage is telling the truth and that's all that matters to me and many others out there.

Then you're thicker than I thought. And believe me, I thought you were a thick tw@ before!

 

[BigGully]

When?

Im sure you realise that the day after, we lose ALL the trade deals we currently have with the EU, and 60 other countries. So, what is the timescale for this 'globally trading business hub' where we will be worse off than we currently are etc? 5 years? 10 years? What does the country do until new trade deals are formulated?

I think you are being naive if you think there would not be a concerted effort to retain mutually beneficial trade deals, I think you underestimate the importance and the position of the UK economy to the global market place.

 

[daveinprague]

I think you are being naive if you think there would not be a concerted effort to retain mutually beneficial trade deals, I think you underestimate the importance and the position of the UK economy to the global market place.

Its not me asking for a 'no deal'. It is people, some even on NSC, who voted leave.
Ive not seen you question leave proponents on NSC about leaving the EU without a deal.
So, you agree, that if we leave with no deal, it will be a disaster for the country?

 

[BigGully]

Its not me asking for a 'no deal'.
Ive not seen you question leave proponents on NSC about leaving the EU with a deal or not.
So, you agree, that if we leave with no deal, it will be a disaster for the country?

No of course not, everything is a 'no deal' a day before there is agreement on anything ........

 

[Two Professors]

Stupid man.

Agree.The description of the working person sounds exactly like a certain supermarket employee who does nothing but whine,a remoaner.

 

[daveinprague]

No of course not, everything is a 'no deal' a day before there is agreement on anything ........

How about the day after. Nobody has said before. If we leave the EU without a deal, you do not think it will be economically disasgrous? Really?

 

[melias shoes]

Yes I do.

What 'billions' are you referring to exactly?

If you are unable to answer about what happens if we leave with no deal, then, just say. Im sorry. I do not know the answer of what happens to the country because of people like me voting to leave.

If you don't know what billions I'm referring to you need to step away from the debate.

 

[daveinprague]

If you don't know what billions I'm referring to you need to step away from the debate.

Wow, you really are scared to answer... Im asking you. Why? Because I really do not think you understand. At all.

 

[BigGully]

How about the day after. Nobody has said before.

Day after what, that would be a deal, wouldn't it ?

 

[daveinprague]

Day after what, that would be a deal, wouldn't it ?

If we leave the EU in March without a deal with the EU it would be a deal? im not seeing that as a 'deal' particularly. What happens to our economy, if we leave with no deal.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's simple, I want a total 'cake and eat it' deal, full and unfettered access to the single market, whilst not having to adhere to the four EU four pillars, oh and I do not want to pay a divorce bill either and I will try my very best to show why this might be mutually beneficial.

I'll make a deal with you, you don't tell me your fantasies and I won't tell you mine

But I am a pragmatist, it would be an ongoing assessment with a tipping point that might not make it worthwhile to try and strike a deal, then you walk away, dont ask exactly where that tipping point might be, as in all negotiation it's fluid, but at the end of it we have to uphold the referendum result and whatever the end deal might be it has to represent a tangible exit from the EU.

So, is TMs deal miles away, near or over that tipping point ?

 

[BigGully]

If we leave the EU in March without a deal with the EU it would be a deal? im not seeing that as a 'deal' particularly. What happens to our economy, if we leave with no deal.

Well we dont know, my bet is the UK economy will show resilience, not because I am blind patriot, but because the official statistics show that the UK is relevant and not to recognise it is simply bizarre, I think the UK's economy is something as large as the last 16 EU countries put together.

Once the political shenanigans are finished and no matter what the outcome I suspect trade, jobs and prosperity will drive a new mutually beneficial relationship with the EU no matter what animosity is seen in the coming months between transient politicians from both sides, trade will win the day.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

'out of their depth', 'sold it scandalously simplistically', 'sheer magnitude and complexity', 'distorted the thinking', is it any wonder that you are totally exasperated at anything that Brexiteers might think reasonably attainable ?

Again I think you have muddied the waters with such a genuine dislike of the politicians that helped ease through the referendum result, a result you find nearly impossible to accept and in doing so you can hardly see any outcome other than complete disaster, a disaster by the way you told us would have happened by now, yet hasn't, some sense of perspective might serve you better, you underestimating the standing of the UK, economically, politically and historically doesn't necessarily mean that those of us that see it more positively are somehow 'gung ho patriots'.

You have this odd perception that the poor old Leave voters were somehow duped, how else could they possibly not vote the same as you, it's all a little bit predictable, remember the link you posted showing 5% of UKIP voters that supposedly voted Remain and how you laughed, whilst not noticing that the same link and graph also showed 30%+ Lib Dem voted to Leave.

Thanks for your close textual analysis of my post. You are (again) sort of right in that pessimism does run through my position rather as lettering through a stick of Brighton rock. To repay the compliment:


a) there is no consensus among Brexiteers themselves about what is 'reasonably attainable'


b) I'm not sure I did predict immediate 'disaster' but I have been quite sharp on monitoring the rather large and significant unanticipated consequences of Leaving and very few if any of them have been grounds for optimism (indeed a couple of times I've reached out and invited Leavers to give us some good news....)


c) if this isn't universally recognised as a matter of 'magnitude and complexity' then anyone who doesn't subscribe is either a bit dim or rather disingenuous (these 2 are not mutually exclusive of course)


d) now come on - even you must think that the 5% of UKIP voters who voted Remain is quite funny? We might be leaving the EU but let's not lose our sense of humour...….

 

[Baldseagull]

'out of their depth', 'sold it scandalously simplistically', 'sheer magnitude and complexity', 'distorted the thinking', is it any wonder that you are totally exasperated at anything that Brexiteers might think reasonably attainable ?

Again I think you have muddied the waters with such a genuine dislike of the politicians that helped ease through the referendum result, a result you find nearly impossible to accept and in doing so you can hardly see any outcome other than complete disaster, a disaster by the way you told us would have happened by now, yet hasn't, some sense of perspective might serve you better, you underestimating the standing of the UK, economically, politically and historically doesn't necessarily mean that those of us that see it more positively are somehow 'gung ho patriots'.

You have this odd perception that the poor old Leave voters were somehow duped, how else could they possibly not vote the same as you, it's all a little bit predictable, remember the link you posted showing 5% of UKIP voters that supposedly voted Remain and how you laughed, whilst not noticing that the same link and graph also showed 30%+ Lib Dem voted to Leave.

We think you were duped because of what some of you are still expecting Brexit to deliver. The really sad part is that it has all been fully exposed, and now you are duping yourselves.

Were the Lib Dems established with the sole aim of remaining in the EU?

 

[WATFORD zero]

We will become a confident, globally trading dynamic business hub, including agreeing a mutually beneficial trading relationship with the EU just like most other countries, so what do you think ?

I think that we won't have

The Border and customs posts in NI/Ireland
The facilities in the ports and airports to manage the monitoring of imports/exports
The systems to manage the WTO tariffs and rules on all imports/exports
The staff to manage the customs, systems etc

And that is if we manage to get agreement from all other WTO members on our submissions (and Brazil, US and New Zealand have already said no to our proposed quotas)

And all this done by the 31st March 2019. (All other independent countries already have all these things is place).

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think you are being naive if you think there would not be a concerted effort to retain mutually beneficial trade deals, I think you underestimate the importance and the position of the UK economy to the global market place.

And i see you still believe 'the easiest deal in history' and 'they need us more than we need them' line then ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Stupid man.

Shouldn't you be working hard on the front line rather than playing on the Internet ?

I could tell you a few things about those foreign workers.
You see I'm what you call in the front line. I'm in construction and these SO CALLED skilled workers are far from that. As for hard working don't make me laugh. On a site where I am they start after us,are forever having fag breaks and rarely still at work after3pm. A whole hour and half before we leave. Baring in mind we start at 7.30am.

 

[Baldseagull]

Well we dont know, my bet is the UK economy will show resilience, not because I am blind patriot, but because the official statistics show that the UK is relevant and not to recognise it is simply bizarre, I think the UK's economy is something as large as the last 16 EU countries put together.

Once the political shenanigans are finished and no matter what the outcome I suspect trade, jobs and prosperity will drive a new mutually beneficial relationship with the EU no matter what animosity is seen in the coming months between transient politicians from both sides, trade will win the day.

That is what drove us to join the EU in the first place.

 

[daveinprague]

Well we dont know, my bet is the UK economy will show resilience, not because I am blind patriot, but because the official statistics show that the UK is relevant and not to recognise it is simply bizarre, I think the UK's economy is something as large as the last 16 EU countries put together.

Once the political shenanigans are finished and no matter what the outcome I suspect trade, jobs and prosperity will drive a new mutually beneficial relationship with the EU no matter what animosity is seen in the coming months between transient politicians from both sides, trade will win the day.

We dont know. my bet is, I suspect, I think

ok, so its up there with possibly, maybe, what could happen, I believe etc etc.
What happens to our trade on day 1 outside the EU if we have no trade deal?