[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Tell you what, when you want to answer questions put to you, then I’ll try to explain to you. Until then, it’s pointless.

I guess I'll just have to get by without you explaining international trade negotiations to me

 

[pb21]

The issue (IMO) is perception. If the EU don’t really think that we will walk away, then they think they have the upper hand as we are craving a deal. However, if they know that we are actively preparing for a No Deal (I’m not saying actively seeking it), then they realise that we are prepared to walk away.

For all her talk about “No deal is better than a bad deal” from TM, this is clearly not the case. She wants to thwart Brexit as much as possible. This is why there is a lot of anger from Brexit supporters over the ‘betrayal’ of the Remainers who are pretending to implement Brexit.

It would have to be someone who the EU thought was completely irresponsible and fully reckless for them to think we would walk away. Thankfully such people are few and far between and absolutely nowhere near the negotiations.

 

[larus]

It would have to be someone who the EU thought was completely irresponsible and fully reckless for them to think we would walk away. Thankfully such people are few and far between and absolutely nowhere near the negotiations.

Do you realise that most of the world is not in the EU and they all survive quite well? Some people just believe too many scare stories

 

[larus]

I guess I'll just have to get by without you explaining international trade negotiations to me

Yeah. You can always ask your mate Gopher .

I’ll keep asking you the same question about who from the Leave side is involved in the negotiations though as it makes you look weak, not having the confidence to answer it.

 

[pb21]

Do you realise that most of the world is not in the EU and they all survive quite well? Some people just believe too many scare stories

And some people belive in fairy tales.

I don't think anyone potentially involved, even Moggy, would actually walk away with no deal. They may say they would, to be fair they have to, but ultimately I don't believe they would; they have some appreciation of reality. You may walk away, thankfully you are absolutely nowhere near the negotiations.

 

[larus]

And some people belive in fairy tales.

I don't think anyone potentially involved, even Moggy, would actually walk away with no deal. They may say they would, to be fair they have to, but ultimately I don't believe they would; they have some appreciation of reality. You may walk away, thankfully you are absolutely nowhere near the negotiations.

Someone’s living in the land of delusion. He thinks he knows what other people think

Keep taking the pills. They may kick in someday soon.

Most of the world are outside of the EU. Japan and Canada have RECENTLY negotiated trade deals with the EU. Tell me, do you think Japan wasn’t exporting to Japan before then?
*** Some people believe everything they are told ***

 

[pb21]

Someone’s living in the land of delusion. He thinks he knows what other people think

Keep taking the pills. They may kick in someday soon.

Most of the world are outside of the EU. Japan and Canada have RECENTLY negotiated trade deals with the EU. Tell me, do you think Japan wasn’t exporting to Japan before then?
*** Some people believe everything they are told ***

Of course I don't know what other people think, I'm not a mind reader and have never professed to be. I don't need to be taking any pills thanks, it seems you do though as you are imaging things that I have said

Most of the world have never been in the EU, Japan certainly hasn't, and none of the world has ever been in the EU for decades and has then left, whilst also residing in Europe, not even Canada. This is something completely new and unique. It's you who is believing what you are being told from the likes of Fox, did you really think this would be easy? I'd be very surprised if even he actually thought that, it's all just stuff for the gullible to lap up.

 

[Baldseagull]

I listened to and read most of the debate on who should or should not have the vote during the Referendum Bill process, there were many reasons for and against before the amendment votes on the franchise were defeated but i dont recall once anyone saying the franchise shouldnt be changed to include over 15yr expats or the vote shouldnt be extended to 16,17 yr olds because the referendum was advisory.Are you sure you heard that correctly? Have a link?

Fairly sure that the point was made that as it was advisory only, these groups need not be asked, not sure by whom, but I will try and find something on it. But I notice you excluded the threshold part, is that because you agree there was no threshold because of the advisory only nature of the referendum?

 

[Stat Brother]

Lucky it's not Mr. S. Tone-Island, that'll really confuse them

[tweet]1030895617072091136[/tweet]





Come on people we kid because we love.

 

[pastafarian]

Fairly sure that the point was made that as it was advisory only, these groups need not be asked, not sure by whom, but I will try and find something on it. But I notice you excluded the threshold part, is that because you agree there was no threshold because of the advisory only nature of the referendum?

No, as I seem to recall some minister made the point that the 1975 ref had no threshold so neither should this one. It was in reference to a double majority threshold where all four countries would have to vote leave. I think he did make reference to both referendums being advisory but the reasoning behind not having the double majority was linked to EU membership being UK membership, so it should be one outcome for the whole UK, and wasnt linking the no threshold decision to the advisory nature so to speak. Seem to remember the threshold proposal was voted on and defeated quite easily.
There was a commons briefing paper that spoke of the “advisory” nature of pre-legislative referendums, perhaps you are thinking of that. Again though wasn’t linked to arguing the franchise shouldn’t be extended because of the nature or type of referendum.

2-2 tomorrow.....or a complete drubbing.
Extra beers stocked for tomorrow night just in case pain needs to be numbed.

 

[pastafarian]

Lucky it's not Mr. S. Tone-Island, that'll really confuse them

[tweet]1030895617072091136[/tweet]





Come on people we kid because we love.

 

[Baldseagull]

No, as I seem to recall some minister made the point that the 1975 ref had no threshold so neither should this one. It was in reference to a double majority threshold where all four countries would have to vote leave. I think he did make reference to both referendums being advisory but the reasoning behind not having the double majority was linked to EU membership being UK membership, so it should be one outcome for the whole UK, and wasnt linking the no threshold decision to the advisory nature so to speak. Seem to remember the threshold proposal was voted on and defeated quite easily.
There was a commons briefing paper that spoke of the “advisory” nature of pre-legislative referendums, perhaps you are thinking of that. Again though wasn’t linked to arguing the franchise shouldn’t be extended because of the nature or type of referendum.

2-2 tomorrow.....or a complete drubbing.
Extra beers stocked for tomorrow night just in case pain needs to be numbed.

I was thinking threshold for the total percentage of electorate. The referendum was won on 37% of the electorate voting leave, for me this is not enough. Don't get me wrong, I would be disagreeing if it had been a clear 50+% of the total electorate, but it would feel less like an ambush of opportunity that we are where we are.

 

[daveinprague]

Someone’s living in the land of delusion. He thinks he knows what other people think

Keep taking the pills. They may kick in someday soon.

Most of the world are outside of the EU. Japan and Canada have RECENTLY negotiated trade deals with the EU. Tell me, do you think Japan wasn’t exporting to Japan before then?
*** Some people believe everything they are told ***

But now they have a better deal? Not much point making a deal otherwise.
Most of the world outside the EU is pretty poor isnt it? IMF recognises 35 half decent economies, and 27 of those are in the EU.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Lucky it's not Mr. S. Tone-Island, that'll really confuse them

[tweet]1030895617072091136[/tweet]





Come on people we kid because we love.

If it's all about doing the right thing, do you know if the clothing is manufactured in the UK, because doing something like that would create thousands of jobs for people.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

You're muddling up who you don't like politically with whom might be a better negotiator with the hand that is held.

As an avid Remainer you cannot begin to imagine a better economic/political outcome the farther we are away from the EU whilst others do, Boris, Fox or Gove wouldn't strive to deliver your preferred outcome would they, so you say they are incapable, but that's not necessarily true.

You are sort of right when you interpret my perspective on this. But I really would be fascinated by a parallel narrative of how Leavers would see these negotiations going under a purely Leave regime (and who else would there be other than the characters I nominated?).

I really do think that Leavers framed this whole business far too simplistically - they certainly sold it scandalously simplistically to the public (that can't be denied - ''the easiest in history" etc!). I think (and this is being sympathetic) they are simply out of their depth trying to dal with/process the sheer magnitude and complexity of the whole issue. The practical ramifications were never thought-through fully and there was a kind of gung-ho patriotism that kicked in that distorted the thinking. This was brilliant in the campaigning sense (partly because it allowed Leavers to imply that Remainers were somehow unpatriotic) but was never a stable platform for the subsequent process. May parachuted herself into the centre of this mess which is still fundamentally an argument within the Tory party.


But to state that somehow Remainers have subverted the process just continue to peddle a simplistic view. Hence I wondered: what would the outcome be if there were different hands on the steering wheel. I think disaster - not just because I dislike them (although of course I do) but because of the way they frame the issues and the nature of the process. In short - we just have not got the cards to play.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If it's all about doing the right thing, do you know if the clothing is manufactured in the UK, because doing something like that would create thousands of jobs for people.

Nope - the products are made in India. And this nice caring company were caught using as good as slave labour to make the product paying 28p an hour. They also employed some very unsavoury employment practices.

I'm sure the campaign for a second vote will welcome his rather dodgy money with open arms.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nope - the products are made in India. And this nice caring company were caught using as good as slave labour to make the product paying 28p an hour. They also employed some very unsavoury employment practices.

I'm sure the campaign for a second vote will welcome his rather dodgy money with open arms.

Immediately the bloke would have earned some respect had even some of it been manufactured in the UK.

They are all the same WS.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

You are sort of right when you interpret my perspective on this. But I really would be fascinated by a parallel narrative of how Leavers would see these negotiations going under a purely Leave regime (and who else would there be other than the characters I nominated?).

I really do think that Leavers framed this whole business far too simplistically - they certainly sold it scandalously simplistically to the public (that can't be denied - ''the easiest in history" etc!). I think (and this is being sympathetic) they are simply out of their depth trying to dal with/process the sheer magnitude and complexity of the whole issue. The practical ramifications were never thought-through fully and there was a kind of gung-ho patriotism that kicked in that distorted the thinking. This was brilliant in the campaigning sense (partly because it allowed Leavers to imply that Remainers were somehow unpatriotic) but was never a stable platform for the subsequent process. May parachuted herself into the centre of this mess which is still fundamentally an argument within the Tory party.


But to state that somehow Remainers have subverted the process just continue to peddle a simplistic view. Hence I wondered: what would the outcome be if there were different hands on the steering wheel. I think disaster - not just because I dislike them (although of course I do) but because of the way they frame the issues and the nature of the process. In short - we just have not got the cards to play.

Blimey, all that at 7:20 on a Sunday morning.
Are you a giant Lark?

 

[daveinprague]

Nope - the products are made in India. And this nice caring company were caught using as good as slave labour to make the product paying 28p an hour. They also employed some very unsavoury employment practices.

I'm sure the campaign for a second vote will welcome his rather dodgy money with open arms.

You have a link for that story?
Sounds interesting. Im not saying your telling fibs incidentally, but cant see anything obvious along those lines searching.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You have a link for that story?
Sounds interesting. Im not saying your telling fibs incidentally, but cant see anything obvious along those lines searching.

There's a number of online articles about it but here's one - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ke-you-never-want-to-wear-superdry-again/amp/