[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

Ah, the good old Will of the People.

The EU isn't threatening anybody. The Commission is making sure that such dues, as the MEPs pensions are covered by us as the law in all the countries. Blaming the EU is a very weak point. The EU hasn't done anything, it is the UK who has chosen to go down this route, putting the Good Friday Agreement in danger, causing Gibraltar to have problems, and causing the pound to weaken considerably.
Blame it all on the EU, when it is the will of the people, all 17 million of them.

Don't blame the 71.8% of the electorate who voted. Blame the 13 million people who didn't bother to turn out. If they were so disinterested first time around, about the most important vote post-war , then I can't see them racing out to polling booths to decide whether they like the deal or not. But then we all know a lot of them aren't even registered to vote, so its pointless speculating.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

THERE'S NOTHING FOR YOU TO KEEP WASTING YOUR TIME ON , WE'RE LEAVING , DEAL WITH IT
regards
DR

DO NOT DISCUSS ! DO NOT DEBATE ! SHUT DOWN ALL OPINIONS !

[emoji38]ol:

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And what do you expect life to be like on the other side? How will your life change for the better?

I haven't read about one benefit that Brexit will bring. I am all ears.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Fantasy world? How can I possibly debate with someone who believes that?

I really wouldn't bother anymore - it's like talking to 3 year old's trying to explain how Father Christmas doesn't exist.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

And what do you expect life to be like on the other side? How will your life change for the better?

i'll go with the flow, nobody likes change but there comes a time when enough's enough and that time is coming, i'm not loosing sleep over it thanks and it's got nothing to do with personal lifestyle changes, that wasn't what I voted for
regards
DR

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm looking forward to the Good / Red White and Blue Deal we're going to get, I can't wait! Any news?!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

DO NOT DISCUSS ! DO NOT DEBATE ! SHUT DOWN ALL OPINIONS !

[emoji38]ol:

they were shut down months ago, stop wasting your time it's over we're leaving ,deal with it
regards
DR

 

[Mo Gosfield]

And what do you expect life to be like on the other side? How will your life change for the better?

Some people will argue that life couldn't get anymore worse for them, than it is now.
This is a national debate not the sole preserve of the Southern based chattering classes, comfortable in their middle class existence, taking regular holidays abroad and earning decent salaries and living in their own homes. The ' I'm alright Jack, shame about other parts of the Country ' brigade.

 

[WATFORD zero]

leave means leave not keeping one toe in the water ffs, GET A GRIP WE'RE LEAVING you deluded grizzlers
regards
DR

And what do you expect life to be like on the other side? How will your life change for the better?

There'll be less immigrants taking benefits what is rightfully his, innit

 

[GJN1]

Some people will argue that life couldn't get anymore worse for them, than it is now.
This is a national debate not the sole preserve of the Southern based chattering classes, comfortable in their middle class existence, taking regular holidays abroad and earning decent salaries and living in their own homes. The ' I'm alright Jack, shame about other parts of the Country ' brigade.

With respect, that doesn't answer the questions...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don't blame the 71.8% of the electorate who voted. Blame the 13 million people who didn't bother to turn out. If they were so disinterested first time around, about the most important vote post-war , then I can't see them racing out to polling booths to decide whether they like the deal or not. But then we all know a lot of them aren't even registered to vote, so its pointless speculating.

I do know of quite a few people who voted for Brexit, who now see what a mess it is, and have changed their minds.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Good analysis here from an article in The Times today showing the different, divided factions in parliament presiding over this shambles. Sam Coates has just Tweeted that the Tory 'Brexit Delivery Group' one is now up to 20:

TORIES
Theresa May and government loyalists (100 plus)
The most thankless position in politics. There are not enough of them to carry Mrs May’s Chequers plan but they soldier on, destination unknown. On Monday they were forced to vote for Brexiteer amendments that conflict, politically if not legally, with the Chequers plan.

Hard Brexit European Research Group (40 plus)
Mobilised and disciplined Brexiteers who are firmly on manoeuvres behind Jacob Rees-Mogg, the MP for North East Somerset and chairman of the European Research Group. Determined to kill off the Chequers proposal, they claim to have succeeded already after Mrs May accepted their amendments to her white paper on Monday.

Paramilitary Brexiteers (fewer than 5)
The backbenchers Peter Bone and Andrew Bridgen are among those who might push harder against the government than the ERG. Whereas Jacob Rees-Mogg says he will not vote against Mrs May in a confidence vote, some in this category whisper that securing Brexit is more important than continuing with a Conservative government.

Soft Brexiteers (15 plus)
Pro-business, Remain-minded Tory MPs including the former transport minister Stephen Hammond. They want a customs union and membership of the European Free Trade Association, which includes Norway and Switzerland. This group broadly supports Chequers and balks at ERG pressure for Mrs May to change course.

Brexit Delivery Group (about 12)
A nascent group that includes the former local government ministers Nick Boles and Andrew Percy. They are fed up with Leavers, Remainers and indeed the entire process of Brexit. They describe themselves as a group that is pragmatic with regards to leaving the European Union and simply want it to be over and done with.

Second referendum gang (fewer than 5)
This week has been marked by a very small movement towards a second referendum in the Tory ranks, with Justine Greening’sarticle in The Times supported by her backbench colleagues Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen. The idea was not greeted with great joy, even by other Remain-minded Tory MPs, and was rejected by Downing Street.

LABOUR
Jeremy Corbyn and the Corbynites (20 plus)
For the leader’s office, Brexit has been at best a tool to beat Theresa May’s government and at worse an irritating chore. Jeremy Corbyn’s lack of enthusiasm for remaining in the single market has been central to Labour’s policy, not least because he realises that many of his opponents are trying to push him into single-market membership.

Pro-Brexit single-marketeers (at least 30)
Hilary Benn’s constituency of Leeds Central voted to remain in the EU, but other members of this group are MPs for northern constituencies that voted for Brexit. They are nervous of telling their voters that they were wrong. They want a soft Brexit to protect jobs and believe that every opportunity must be given for it to work.

The no-Brexit second referendum club (40 plus)
Prominent Labour MPs such as Wes Streeting and Owen Smith have indicated that they want a referendum on Mrs May’s final deal. This is because many would be happy to see Brexit disappear for ever. They have successfully been nudging their party closer to endorsing a second referendum if Britain should face a chaotic exit.

Firm Labour Brexiteers (fewer than 5)
This small band of Leave supporters includes John Mann, Kate Hoey and Frank Field, who routinely vote with the government on crunch Brexit votes. The whips have only a limited impact on the actions of this group. Their votes are impervious to Labour whips trying to inflict a defeat on Theresa May. They were key in last night’s customs vote.

SNP
The known unknowns (35)
Every constituency in Scotland voted Remain, does not want Brexit to happen and could support a second referendum or even just a straight Commons vote. If Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford, the SNP’s leader in the Commons, are forced to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s compromise option, which division lobby will they be in?

DUP
Mainstream (9)
Arlene Foster’s DUP supported Brexit and would prefer to leave the customs union and single market, but they really only have one red line: no border in the Irish sea. This means the rules for Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK must remain consistent. If this changed they would probably withdraw support for the government.

The Sammy Wilson One (1)
A key DUP figure, Sammy Wilson is the most Brexit-supporting of the party’s MPs in the Commons. His objections in December helped to trigger a spiral of unhappiness inside the party to the customs backstop. Affable and populist, he would support the hardest Brexit going although will be loyal to the party’s eventual decisions.

LIB DEMS/GREENS/OTHERS
(Almost) united against Brexit
The Lib Dems oppose Brexit and will campaign hard to stop it however possible, with the exception of Norman Lamb, who believes that the vote cannot be ignored. All the MPs, however, would endorse a second referendum. Caroline Lucas, the Green MP, also supports the “people’s vote” for a second referendum.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

There'll be less immigrants taking benefits what is rightfully his, innit

Ah...….. Watford bloke has appeared , cleaned that sand out of your ears yet .
regards
DR

 

[GJN1]

i'll go with the flow, nobody likes change but there comes a time when enough's enough and that time is coming, i'm not loosing sleep over it thanks and it's got nothing to do with personal lifestyle changes, that wasn't what I voted for
regards
DR

Once more, that doesn't answer the questions. Surprise, surprise...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm looking forward to the Good / Red White and Blue Deal we're going to get, I can't wait! Any news?!

Japanese cars will have 0% tariffs in Europe but 10% tariff with isolated Britain. The people in the North East will lose their jobs because Japanese cars will no longer be made here.

It's all ok though because the Pretty Pink Fairy says Deal with it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Brian Bilston

HOLD MY HAND WHILE WE JUMP OFF THIS CLIFF
‘Let’s jump off this cliff – it’ll be fun! A right laugh!’
urged all the people (well, I mean just over half
of those who had bothered to speak up at all).
I peered down at the rocks; it was a long way to fall.

I said, ‘This cliff’s more than three hundred feet high
and my doctor tells me if I jump I will die.’
‘Cliff-jumping’s fine!’ they said. ‘Don’t trust doctors, trust us!
We read all about it on the side of a bus.’

Worried, I met up with my local MP.
I shared my concerns. He was forced to agree:
‘Why the rocks below would smash you to bits!
Where did you get this idea of jumping off cliffs?’

‘It was the will of some of the people,’ I said
and his expression changed to another instead.
‘I think,’ he revised, ‘you’re being melodramatic.
The problem is you. You’re undemocratic.’

On the clifftop, we waited. In silence we stood.
Then a voice: ‘Remind me, why is cliff-jumping good?’
But we looked down at our shoes, baffled and stumped.
Then, out of embarrassment, we held hands and jumped

 

[clippedgull]

I do know of quite a few people who voted for Brexit, who now see what a mess it is, and have changed their minds.

To be fair, there could also be a number of people in the country who voted Remain and now wish to Brexit!

 

[Two Professors]

Japanese cars will have 0% tariffs in Europe but 10% tariff with isolated Britain. The people in the North East will lose their jobs because Japanese cars will no longer be made here.

It's all ok though because the Pretty Pink Fairy says Deal with it.

The deal with Japan has not been ratified yet,and will not be for some while,if at all.Even if it does ever get ratified there is a seven year gap between ratification and zero tariff on cars.Japanese cars will be made here for a lot longer yet,as the Japanese only deal in certainties,not what-ifs.

Oh,I'm probably on ignore with Mrs Windrush,as apparently I called Floella Benjamin a liar,so if this could be put on Twatter she might see it

 

[rippleman]

Apologies if fixtures but does the second referendum proposed by Greening seem totally daft? I'm not asking / advocating that there should be a second referendum but I don't think she thought it through.

She wants 3 options on the ballot paper:

1) A Mrs May Brexit

2) Hard Brexit / No Deal

3) Remain

So you have two options for Brexit. So let's say the vote is 30:30:40. So Remain gets the highest vote BUT the two Brexit options combined together is 60%.

So what happens then? Probably a good thing she is no longer Secretary of State for Education; she clearly hasn't mastered the math.

 

[GJN1]

Apologies if fixtures but does the second referendum proposed by Greening seem totally daft? I'm not asking / advocating that there should be a second referendum but I don't think she thought it through.

She wants 3 options on the ballot paper:

1) A Mrs May Brexit

2) Hard Brexit / No Deal

3) Remain

So you have two options for Brexit. So let's say the vote is 30:30:40. So Remain gets the highest vote BUT the two Brexit options combined together is 60%.

So what happens then? Probably a good thing she is no longer Secretary of State for Education; she clearly hasn't mastered the math.

She wanted it done under AV so you have to have a second choice as well as your first. In that method, you'd think that the option 1 would prevail given that would be everybody's second choice, irrespective of whether you voted leave or remain...