[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

That’s exactly what I think. I was grumpy with my mum for the way she voted. But then I realised that the only way she could vote was by gut feeling. My mum has not internet access, and struggles to understand even the basics of modern day life. I on the other hand did a massive amount of research try to read in many views as possible. But I still had to go with gut instinct.

People talk of democracy, but we already have that and we vote hoping that the people who run the country do so in our best interest. If our priminister at the time was a remainer, because he thought we were better being in the EU. I am guessing he had access to more facts then me or my mother, why the hell did he give people who realistically don’t have a scooby a chance to decide. He took a risk and it back fired and now we are all going to pay. Remember It’s only the rich that prosper when things go dramatically tits up. So I do not think the current incumbents will give a flying duck.

Please, please don't fall into the trap of believing that politicians know better than us and are thus, better placed and informed at making decisions on our behalf. There is always an agenda behind everything. Ask yourself the question why the political elite allowed this vote. The majority didn't want to abandon the EU. It is the most fantastically beneficial bureaucratic gravy train ever invented. It keeps tens of thousands of civil servants in highly paid salaries ( 4000+ earning six figure salaries ) It supports with massive pensions. It supports with post-MP career jobs, at huge salaries. It rolls on looking after its own. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Their own arrogance led them to think that it was a sure-fire result. It was going to be a mandate for Cameron and Osborne to carry on as before, despite years and years of failure at trying to secure even a slightly better deal out of Brussels. In fact, our position was steadily getting worse and worse. A lot of people in this country could see the EU sticking two fingers up to us and railroading through everything we tried to do. The people could see vast contributions going into the EU coffers and couldn't see value for money. The people could see that their own internal interests weren't being represented. They saw the failure of multi-culturalism. They saw deprivation and ghettoes. They saw a country out of control. They saw a country that had changed over the years from a strong manufacturing base to a service-based country. They saw how Germany benefitted from and controlled the EU. They saw that the EU doesn't suit our trading profile. It could have done with a different attitude but nothing is going to change within the powerbase of the EU. They are hellbent on a straight road to superstate federalism and a lot of people in this country don't fancy that.
You and your Mum had different gut feelings. No problem in that. Most of the best decisions in life are gut feelings. I have a gut feeling that eventually the EU will cease to exist in its current format. The world is ever changing. Look back 50 years and then back again to now. I could be wrong but one thing I do know, is that the rest of the world has caught up and as the EU continues to adopt protectionist policies for its own land mass, the rest of the world is overtaking it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ask yourself the question why the political elite allowed this vote. The majority didn't want to abandon the EU. It is the most fantastically beneficial bureaucratic gravy train ever invented. It keeps tens of thousands of civil servants in highly paid salaries ( 4000+ earning six figure salaries ) It supports with massive pensions. It supports with post-MP career jobs, at huge salaries. It rolls on looking after its own.

Out of interest, how do you think or expect administrations such as the EU operate? On fresh air and good will?

 

[Triggaaar]

But Trig, the current ruling party introduced this fixed FIVE year term, Labour do not have to present their manifesto for another FOUR years!!!

We had a general election after the Brexit vote, and Labour said they'd implement Brexit if they won, so what strategy did they put forward?

they are Her Majesties opposition and they are opposing

Right, but when you oppose you're not supposed to just wave your arms about and shout 'I oppose' every time the other party speaks, you're supposed to explain why, and part of explaining why is putting forward your better alternative.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

A couple of minor points, we had a referendum where a majority voted leave with the promise this would be enacted and a general election where over 80% voted for parties promising to enact the referendum result. You and others want a third go to hopefully get a result you want .. which is very EU keep asking the question etc.

.

You're making things up. You have quoted my post, but rather than address anything in it, you address something I haven't written.

I've argued, very clearly, that it is right, proper, and utterly predictable, that people who voted remain, would now, after the referendum vote (to leave, but under no defined terms) continue to campaign / argue / agitate, for the final outcome to be as 'soft' as possible.

Why are you pretending I'm arguing for a reversal, or for a second referendum

 

[Berty23]

Phew. Food mountains are being prepared in case we have a no deal. Excellent news. The promised boon to the country of Brexit and 350 million a week for the NHS is becoming "hopefully we won't starve"

Cool

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/67472...processed-food/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[CHAPPERS]

This is good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opinion/boris-johnson-resignation-brexit.html

In the two years since the Leave campaign unexpectedly won, nobody, from the prime minister to Mr. Johnson to the Labour Party, has been able to come up with a plan for exiting the European Union that can satisfy both a majority in Parliament and the expectant public. Why? Because fulfilling the false promises peddled by Mr. Johnson during the campaign is impossible.

The gulf between the easy, prosperous, productive Brexit that its voters are impatiently expecting, and the grim, complicated cost of disentangling economies that have been intertwined for decades has poisoned and paralyzed British politics.

 

[Trufflehound]

Phew. Food mountains are being prepared in case we have a no deal. Excellent news. The promised boon to the country of Brexit and 350 million a week for the NHS is becoming "hopefully we won't starve"

Cool

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/67472...processed-food/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Good to see from the second picture that what they'll be stockpiling most is Bombay Sapphire gin and Bailey's. So they're obviously prioritising a nutritionally balanced diet for everyone

 

[golddene]

We had a general election after the Brexit vote, and Labour said they'd implement Brexit if they won, so what strategy did they put forward?

Right, but when you
oppose you're not supposed to just wave your arms about and shout 'I oppose' every time the other party speaks, you're supposed to explain why, and part of explaining why is putting forward your better alternative.

Righto, you're playing poker, just show your opponent your hand eh? Besides, it's far fetched I know but.......
Imagine you've stumbled over a way forward from this mess, you'd share your vision with your opponents would you?

 

[pastafarian]

No truce today then?

 

[Triggaaar]

Righto, you're playing poker, just show your opponent your hand eh?

So you think being in opposition should be like a game of poker, where you don't say anything at all?

Besides, it's far fetched I know but.......
Imagine you've stumbled over a way forward from this mess, you'd share your vision with your opponents would you?

Hell yeah! I'd get that way forward detailed so that everyone in the country knows it was my party's idea, and then when the government implement it, we'd get a better Britain as a result, and my party would be able to claim the credit.

 

[golddene]

So you think being in opposition should be like a game of poker, where you don't say anything at all?

Hell yeah! I'd get that way forward detailed so that everyone in the country knows it was my party's idea, and then when the government implement it, we'd get a better Britain as a result, and my party would be able to claim the credit.

You know what Trig? You're right as usual ! What a knumbskull I am eh? Have to go now as today is for football not politics ? Take care mate, maybe catch up tomorrow if I'm not too disappointed

 

[Baldseagull]

Please, please don't fall into the trap of believing that politicians know better than us and are thus, better placed and informed at making decisions on our behalf. There is always an agenda behind everything. Ask yourself the question why the political elite allowed this vote. The majority didn't want to abandon the EU. It is the most fantastically beneficial bureaucratic gravy train ever invented. It keeps tens of thousands of civil servants in highly paid salaries ( 4000+ earning six figure salaries ) It supports with massive pensions. It supports with post-MP career jobs, at huge salaries. It rolls on looking after its own. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Their own arrogance led them to think that it was a sure-fire result. It was going to be a mandate for Cameron and Osborne to carry on as before, despite years and years of failure at trying to secure even a slightly better deal out of Brussels. In fact, our position was steadily getting worse and worse. A lot of people in this country could see the EU sticking two fingers up to us and railroading through everything we tried to do. The people could see vast contributions going into the EU coffers and couldn't see value for money. The people could see that their own internal interests weren't being represented. They saw the failure of multi-culturalism. They saw deprivation and ghettoes. They saw a country out of control. They saw a country that had changed over the years from a strong manufacturing base to a service-based country. They saw how Germany benefitted from and controlled the EU. They saw that the EU doesn't suit our trading profile. It could have done with a different attitude but nothing is going to change within the powerbase of the EU. They are hellbent on a straight road to superstate federalism and a lot of people in this country don't fancy that.
You and your Mum had different gut feelings. No problem in that. Most of the best decisions in life are gut feelings. I have a gut feeling that eventually the EU will cease to exist in its current format. The world is ever changing. Look back 50 years and then back again to now. I could be wrong but one thing I do know, is that the rest of the world has caught up and as the EU continues to adopt protectionist policies for its own land mass, the rest of the world is overtaking it.

Fine to start with a gut feeling, but after that you really should be looking for some evidence to support it.

By what you have written I can tell you have not done this.

The EU did not crush our Unions, and set us towards becoming a service based economy, the EU did not impose multiculturism, or create ghettos. You can't see value for money in the EU, because you can't comprehend all the ways in which we benefit. There are wasteful and pointless expenditures, such as the monthly move to Strasbourg, and giving the UK a rebate, but you know, it kind of sweetens things for the net contributors.

Look back 50 years you said, so I did. The "I'm Backing Britain Campaign" was launched in '68. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_Backing_Britain a response to the largest ever post war defecit. The commonwealth immigrants act was introduced, Enoch Powell gave his rivers of blood speech, and Kenyan Asians were arriving in numbers due to persecution there. Female workers at Ford went on Strike over comparable pay to male workers, which led to the Equal Pay Act. The Race Relations Act was passed, making it illegal to refuse housing, employment or public services to people in Britain because of their ethnic background.
What is it you want to go back to? A time when it was OK to discriminate against women and people with brown skin or funny accents? Or running record breaking defecits and asking the shop floor workers to make it up by working for free?
If we went back 50 years, would you be persuaded by Enoch Powell? Send em all back?

 

[Two Professors]

Phew. Food mountains are being prepared in case we have a no deal. Excellent news. The promised boon to the country of Brexit and 350 million a week for the NHS is becoming "hopefully we won't starve"

Cool

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/67472...processed-food/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

If you could eat smugness you would never need to buy food.How are the plans going for the houses on stilts?

 

[Two Professors]

Other than the German Chancellor's remarkable resemblance to the late, great Les Dawson in the first picture, I'd be rather more troubled by looking at pictures of our own leader snuggling up one Donald Trump over the next few days. Especially given his admiration for Boris.

Don't think any of them will be snuggling up to Don after he has finished with them!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://twitter.com/leavemnsleave?lang=en
https://twitter.com/LeaveMnsLeave/status/1017120801840160769
regards
DR

 

[highflyer]

A good reality check, in terms of where we are now, from the FT, and I particularly like the final line:

'Brexiters are like the dog that caught the car. Now the dog must work out what to do next'

https://www.ft.com/content/6cd2421c...3a-638d0291e9bd&segment_detail=Story4BrexitUK

 

[Two Professors]

A good reality check, in terms of where we are now, from the FT, and I particularly like the final line:

'Brexiters are like the dog that caught the car. Now the dog must work out what to do next'

https://www.ft.com/content/6cd2421c...3a-638d0291e9bd&segment_detail=Story4BrexitUK

Do they pay people to write rubbish like that,or do they keep monkeys chained to typewriters?.

 

[Ernest]

What an absolute shambles in Parliament as the White Paper is published, the Tories breaking every Parliament standard going as the House has to suspended

 

[Ernest]

[tweet]1017385146465570817[/tweet]

 

[TSB]

My first contribution for two years is to express delight that Dominic Raab has managed to unite people of all politics is disdain at a) the crap plan & b) the shambolic way in which it has been delivered.

It's not his plan. We know who the culprits are. Davies - gone. Johnson - gone. You know where the door is, Theresa. You too, Liam Fox, you CJTC.