[Politics] Brexit

[Weststander]

Interesting - if Corbyn offers a peoples vote, he'll win the next election. But would he go against his personal opposition to one ?

Not interesting at all. If you listen to Labour's key leaders even today, all lifelong sceptics of the EU, they would lead us out of the EU and Single Market. McClusky and Thornberry, the latest, couldn't be more clear.

I don't know why people make it up tha Labour give a glimmer of light to Remain.

 

[lawros left foot]

I feel guilty for really enjoying this latest Tory cluster——. I realise that our whole Brexit strategy (or lack of it)is now open to ridicule, hilarity, and incomprehension from the rest of the World, and, I realise that it’s a disaster for the country, but, for all that, it’s turning out a lot better than I feared.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Not interesting at all. If you listen to Labour's key leaders even today, all lifelong sceptics of the EU, they would lead us out of the EU and Single Market. McClusky and Thornberry, the latest, couldn't be more clear.

I don't know why people make it up tha Labour give a glimmer of light to Remain.

My point was - he'd win if he did that. But he won't compromise his view.... so he rather shoots himself in the foot, it seems.

 

[Weststander]

Yes but I'm not voting for Corbyn because he's a proven member of a terrorist oranization



There are other perfectly sound and actually real reasons for not voting labour right now, the most obvious one being the leader an anti-european who is blocking his own party's imperative, and its own shadow Brexit minister's inclination to spend a few minutes sniffing the remains of the brexit 'negociations' and calling it all off. What is the point of replacing one split pack of clowns leading us over a brexit cliff with another lot (albeit the only split in labour now is between JC - and a handfull of cronies - and the entire rest of his party), simply because their underpants are red rather than blue?

Like myself, you voted Remain. And going by the thousands of posts post-Referendum, it's the issue of our times and for future generations.

Why would very pro Europeans vote for Labour instead of the Lib Dems, when only one of those parties wants us to Remain?

 

[Simster]

Already floundering, loads laughing at her

I do find it baffling that you continue to sneer at May and the Tories. How exactly would Labour deal with Brexit any better? They've been scared to tell anyone what they stand for, so they're actually no better.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

Well that was the problem; a lot of people voted on an emotional rather than informed basis. To appeal on an emotional level it's easy to say "we want an independent Britain which has taken back control and is not being ruled from Brussels" and no amount of actual information about the downside of leaving the EU could outweigh that simple emotional message. Problem is that this seemingly simple concept of "taking back control" is an unobtainable fantasy if a country still wants to trade and cooperate with its nearest neighbours (which happens to be the richest and most stable area in the world).

Wow yes that is just simply it.

 

[Frutos]

The BBC are circulating rumours that there is to be an imminent vote of no confidence in the PM.

 

[Weststander]

My point was - he'd win if he did that. But he won't compromise his view.... so he rather shoots himself in the foot, it seems.

It's a deep rooted conviction.

For all our views as holidaymakers and supporters of free trade etc on the EU, Corbyn/McDonnell/McClusky are absolutely certain that the EU is a conspiracy of big business, the wealthy and powerful across Europe to make the wealthy wealthier and a drive to the bottom on wages from freedom of movement.

Most people in the UK simply can't take this on board. They make a lazy and wildly incorrect assumption that only right wing nationalists are against our membership of the EU. Perhaps it because it's unlikely bedfellows wanting our exit.

 

[lawros left foot]

The BBC are circulating rumours that there is to be an imminent vote of no confidence in the PM.

Great stuff I hope she wins it, it’ll be carnage for longer if she does.

 

[Icy Gull]

The BBC are circulating rumours that there is to be an imminent vote of no confidence in the PM.

No surprise and I defy any politician to have handled this Brexit shit storm well and to most people’s satisfaction. Totally poisoned chalice trying to lead Britain out of Europe

 

[ManOfSussex]

1922 Committee meeting at 1730 apparently. Widely reported Sir Graham Brady has the 48 letters required.

 

[Questions]

Given that this mess is entirely Brexit driven, this question can only be answered by knowing where Labour stand in this debate. Personally I haven't got a clue and they are clearly just as split as the Tories but managing to stay largely under the radar because they are not in government. Some sensible and genuine leadership by JC re Brexit is desperately needed but no sign so far. So really no better or worse than May.

As a labour supporter I have to agree with a lot of this. Corbyn didn’t look vehemently pro Europe during the pre Brexit vote.

7/10 wasn’t it.....his quote as to how pro remain he was. He might have had an opportunity but it ‘ll just muddle through now whoever is Tory leader. Boris as PM ? Jesus this is one of the lowest points in my living memory in British politics.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

1922 Committee meeting at 1730 apparently. Widely reported Sir Graham Brady has the 48 letters required.

The moral action would then be to offer a General Election if she goes....


Who holds out much hope of any of that lot doing the right thing ?

 

[Questions]

No surprise and I defy any politician to have handled this Brexit shit storm well and to most people’s satisfaction. Totally poisoned chalice trying to lead Britain out of Europe

Correct because it’s a stupid decision to leave.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I do find it baffling that you continue to sneer at May and the Tories. How exactly would Labour deal with Brexit any better? They've been scared to tell anyone what they stand for, so they're actually no better.

It's a divisive issue without a shadow of a doubt. Labour have dealt with it so far by having a second leadership election, and multiple sackings of the shadow cabinet of anyone not prepared to tow the party line. I'm not even sure this Toryshambles is about brexit, or just another power grab inside the party sensing it is the moment to deal with a leader that took them to a GE and lost a portion of their majority. She has been on borrowed time since then.

 

[Weststander]

As a labour supporter I have to agree with a lot of this. Corbyn didn’t look vehemently pro Europe during the pre Brexit vote.

7/10 wasn’t it.....his quote as to how pro remain he was. He might have had an opportunity but it ‘ll just muddle through now whoever is Tory leader. Boris as PM ? Jesus this is one of the lowest points in my living memory in British politics.

Boris has made many enemies over the last 3 years, so that egotistical desire of his, might be hard to attain.

 

[Ernest]

1922 Committee meeting at 1730 apparently. Widely reported Sir Graham Brady has the 48 letters required.

Amber Rudd hovering around to step in

 

[Ernest]

I do find it baffling that you continue to sneer at May and the Tories. How exactly would Labour deal with Brexit any better? They've been scared to tell anyone what they stand for, so they're actually no better.

Tory policy so they own it, nothing to do with Labour till they form the government

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Like myself, you voted Remain. And going by the thousands of posts post-Referendum, it's the issue of our times and for future generations.

Why would very pro Europeans vote for Labour instead of the Lib Dems, when only one of those parties wants us to Remain?

Yes, quite.

The thing is I wouldn't call myself 'very pro european' as such. But I guess you are using that as shorthand for 'very much in favour of remain' which I very certainly am. I think our relationship with the EU has been toxic ever since Thatcher started demanding 'our' money back. She was absolutely right to negociate a rebate, just as France and others have 'special' arrangements over different issues. But these sorts of negociations are best done behind closed doors, not with public hectoring and triumphalism. Every time Thatcher got somethin out of the EU she came back and ponced about like we had just wond WWII all over again. No wonder the buggers are doing us no favours now. In intervening years the EU grew into its ugly present state while the UK sat idly by, holding its nose, not engaging with the commissions (until the Blair years) and the British media made up any aount of nonsense about square apples and straight bananas. What a f'ucking shambles. I am in favour of engagement, partnership, strong focused negociation. And that takes me back to your point. No, labour ain't going to give us any of that.

So let us imagine, heaven forefend, that all the anti brexit voters decide, en masse, to vote Libdem, should we get another GE before the hard brexit happens? Would that work? It may halt brexit (and, it has to be halted, now, surely?), but I don't trust the Liberals. That said, with 7 or 8 times as many MPs as they have now, there would be an awful lot of new blood, and maybe some of it may be smart blood.....it could work.....

 

[Surrey Phil]

It’s easy to criticise but very hard to actually offer a practical solution. So many back stabbers around!