[Politics] Brexit

[Thecoffeecake]

My outside perspective on Brexit (yea I'll probably have my head bitten of by both sides); I don't support the EU, never have, never will. The EU is a tool of European big business, and driving Europe towards the Washington Consensus. Workers, despite what the propaganda says, are not the group the EU was established to represent. Open borders means free access to more and more markets to the largest companies that produce the cheapest goods and pay their workers the least. It allows the wealthiest classes to consolidate more power by exploiting workers. Ask Greece how privatization and increased imports has worked as a part of its bailout conditions. You guys know better than most Europeans the dangers of trickle-down economics and austerity.

As far as I know, Brexit was executed by the right as a xenophobic response to increased migration. I honestly don't care if that was the story, or part of it, or entirely untrue. I think it was the best move for the UK, regardless of whose idea it was. If tomorrow Trump proposed single payer healthcare, I'm not going to oppose it because he is who he is.

 

[pastafarian]

And among those clamouring to reverse Brexit, does anyone seriously believe we'd be allowed back on our old terms, without further integration, the EU army, and joining the Euro? Dream on!

Mr Verhofstad was very clear on this point if we simply decided to change our mind and stay.

"if Britain is changing its mind, it will find an open door. I do not disagree with him but, like in Alice in Wonderland, not all doors are now the same. It will be a brand new door with a new Europe: a Europe without rebates, without complexity, with real power and with unity"

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides.../EN&language=en&query=INTERV&detail=3-018-000

You can kiss goodbye to rebates and opt outs, hello Schengen, hello Euro. Oddly enough you don’t seem to find any mention of Verhofstad saying this from the remoaners on here when they talk about another referendum and overturning the vote.. Maybe because they know it’s the sort of ever closer union the British would reject in even greater numbers.

 

[The Rivet]

The whole baby boomer generation. Were you paying attention!?

The 'Baby Boomer Generation' is commonly agreed to be the birth boom 1946 - 1954 give or take a few years. The generation whose parents fought a war, were encouraged by the government to populate. The generation with fortitude that worked hard and eventually suffered 14% interest rates in the late seventies. The early 'baby boomer kids' also suffered those rates on their first mortgage. They paid the Tax, NI and pension contributions as asked by government and were promised returns. No question.

You have no concept of sacrifice or even polite acceptance that that generation did what they should have done. They should not be castigated by people with hate like you.

 

[pastafarian]

I wonder what they will do if enough young people leave the country before they can shut the borders? Won't be so funny if we are not about to pay the pensions!

Dont fret snowflake,clearly you dont understand how controlled borders work but you can still leave after Brexit..........going anywhere nice?

 

[Baldseagull]

Mr Verhofstad was very clear on this point if we simply decided to change our mind and stay.

"if Britain is changing its mind, it will find an open door. I do not disagree with him but, like in Alice in Wonderland, not all doors are now the same. It will be a brand new door with a new Europe: a Europe without rebates, without complexity, with real power and with unity"

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides.../EN&language=en&query=INTERV&detail=3-018-000

You can kiss goodbye to rebates and opt outs, hello Schengen, hello Euro. Oddly enough you don’t seem to find any mention of Verhofstad saying this from the remoaners on here when they talk about another referendum and overturning the vote.. Maybe because they know it’s the sort of ever closer union the British would reject in even greater numbers.

He has not the authority to decide this, he is purely giving his opinion, he is an MEP, his opinion on what the EU should do is no more binding than Nigel Farage's, though usually he has a bit more support for his views than Nigel the Nigel does.
I think it much more likely that if we say we no longer wish to withdraw, we remain on our current terms, as of legal right, not by the grace of the other 27.

 

[The Rivet]

Dont fret snowflake,clearly you dont understand how controlled borders work but you can still leave after Brexit..........going anywhere nice?

I wish he would leave now. This country does not want people like that!

In anglo saxon street slang that would sound so much more emphatic and powerful!.....

 

[pastafarian]

It is the controlled part that stinks. If the powers that be don't want you to leave or stay then it is decided. Nothing to do with you.

And quite right, if you are not a wrong un though you wont have a problem trying to leave the country.

 

[Billy the Fish]

If only these Brexit voting regions knew what they'll be losing.

Brilliant, another graph.

Tell us what the funding is spent on, and how it makes a tangible difference to the man in the street?

 

[Mental Lental]

The BBC is as trustworthy on BREXIT as The Sun were on Hillsborough; although at least The Sun thought it was printing the truth.

Oh look! Another demonstrably thick Brexiteer actively demonstrates his/her thickness on the Brexit thread!

Quelle surprise!

 

[The Rivet]

Oh look! Another demonstrably thick Brexiteer actively demonstrates his thickness on the Brexit thread!

Quelle surprise!

Oh my! Look an idiot posting with a tag called Mental, you couldn't make it up! Classic.

 

[Baldseagull]

The 'Baby Boomer Generation' is commonly agreed to be the birth boom 1946 - 1954 give or take a few years. The generation whose parents fought a war, were encouraged by the government to populate. The generation with fortitude that worked hard and eventually suffered 14% interest rates in the late seventies. The early 'baby boomer kids' also suffered those rates on their first mortgage. They paid the Tax, NI and pension contributions as asked by government and were promised returns. No question.

You have no concept of sacrifice or even polite acceptance that that generation did what they should have done. They should not be castigated by people with hate like you.

Must have been terrible to have had free University education, affordable rents followed by the right to buy the house for less than half it's market value, jobs for life, a man could earn enough on his own to buy a house, final salary pensions, early retirement options, sounds like hell.
Plooks is not only funding state pensions with his taxes, he is paying for the debts run up in the past to pay for decent public services, they had, which he is not receiving. No one is blaming the soon to be dead for having had it better, but it is annoying that many of them accept we will be economically worse off, yet they will not feel it, because their income is protected.

 

[The Rivet]

Must have been terrible to have had free University education, affordable rents followed by the right to buy the house for less than half it's market value, jobs for life, a man could earn enough on his own to buy a house, final salary pensions, early retirement options, sounds like hell.
Plooks is not only funding state pensions with his taxes, he is paying for the debts run up in the past to pay for decent public services, they had, which he is not receiving. No one is blaming the soon to be dead for having had it better, but it is annoying that many of them accept we will be economically worse off, yet they will not feel it, because their income is protected.

You sir know nothing. Keep paying.

 

[Baldseagull]

You sir know nothing. Keep paying.

I know a Rivet needs bashing with a hammer to be of any use.

 

[The Rivet]

Must have been terrible to have had free University education, affordable rents followed by the right to buy the house for less than half it's market value, jobs for life, a man could earn enough on his own to buy a house, final salary pensions, early retirement options, sounds like hell.
Plooks is not only funding state pensions with his taxes, he is paying for the debts run up in the past to pay for decent public services, they had, which he is not receiving. No one is blaming the soon to be dead for having had it better, but it is annoying that many of them accept we will be economically worse off, yet they will not feel it, because their income is protected.

Free university education only happened if you were clever enough. If you didn't pass the exams you didn't go. No choice, no media bollocks or make up/beautician courses, no 'shit' university programs that led no where. Back then university wasn't open to the general population. Rightly so.
Affordable rents were as difficult then as now. Unfortunately rent capping was binned.

Don't blame someone who takes advantage of an opportunity. The fact the government didn't reinvest is not the fault of the individual.

Sour grapes and a shite example of trying to demonise the older generation. dreadful.

 

[pastafarian]

You sir know nothing. Keep paying.

Astonishing the hate towards old people since Brexit.
The simple truth is they finally got a vote, like the rest of us on what the EU has morphed into, and they like millions of others didnt like what they saw.
Their vote was and still is equal to the vote of everyone else.

 

[Baldseagull]

Free university education only happened if you were clever enough. If you didn't pass the exams you didn't go. No choice, no media bollocks or make up/beautician courses, no 'shit' university programs that led no where. Back then university wasn't open to the general population. Rightly so.
Affordable rents were as difficult then as now. Unfortunately rent capping was binned.

Don't blame someone who takes advantage of an opportunity. The fact the government didn't reinvest is not the fault of the individual.

Sour grapes and a shite example of trying to demonise the older generation. dreadful.

Maybe you skipped over the part where I typed, "no one is blaming the soon to be dead for having had it better"
My problem is how they voted in the referendum, the rest of it was to counter your depiction of that generation as more self sacrificing and harder working. My issue with that generation is that they have the luxury of a protected income, and will not be hit in the same way at all as the young.

 

[pastafarian]

He has not the authority to decide this, he is purely giving his opinion, he is an MEP, his opinion on what the EU should do is no more binding than Nigel Farage's, though usually he has a bit more support for his views than Nigel the Nigel does.
I think it much more likely that if we say we no longer wish to withdraw, we remain on our current terms, as of legal right, not by the grace of the other 27.

He is more than just an MEP though, he has been appointed as a representative of The EU parliament in the negotiations,its his job to keep the Conference of Presidents not only informed but aid with formulating their position on negotiations. What he says does carry some weight........but im not surprised there will be attempts to portray him as a minnow and distance what he has said from the narrative,which is there for all to see.It makes for very uncomfortable reading doesnt it.

 

[Baldseagull]

He is more than just an MEP though, he has been appointed as a representative of The EU parliament in the negotiations,its his job to keep the Conference of Presidents not only informed but aid with formulating their position on negotiations. What he says does carry some weight........but im not surprised there will be attempts to portray him as a minnow and distance what he has said from the narrative,which is there for all to see.It makes for very uncomfortable reading doesnt it.

Not in the capacity he was speaking in when he said that. As I said, if the legal position is that if we say we are staying, there is nothing the EU can do to force us to leave, or change our conditions in any way, then he can say what he likes.

 

[pastafarian]

Not in the capacity he was speaking in when he said that. As I said, if the legal position is that if we say we are staying, there is nothing the EU can do to force us to leave, or change our conditions in any way, then he can say what he likes.

last time i looked we are negotiating to leave, not negotiating to stay in.
But i do realise if Vince cable wins an election,gets the courts to rule that the supreme court was wrong in determining that Article 50 cannot be revoked, secures a Second referendum Act, and pushes through another referendum on the final deal even though the trade terms section will not be finalised and all by October 2018 to give The EU the six months free it says it needs to follow through on its parliamentary procedure before the exit date things could get messy.
No doubt Gina Miller will be waiting in the wings as well to take The EU to court should they try and follow up on what they must be thinking behind closed doors.

Tick Tock ......as people say.

 

[Baldseagull]

last time i looked we are negotiating to leave, not negotiating to stay in.
But i do realise if Vince cable wins an election,gets the courts to rule that the supreme court was wrong in determining that Article 50 cannot be revoked, secures a Second referendum Act, and pushes through another referendum on the final deal even though the trade terms section will not be finalised and all by October 2018 to give The EU the six months free it says it needs to follow through on its parliamentary procedure before the exit date things could get messy.
No doubt Gina Miller will be waiting in the wings as well to take The EU to court should they try and follow up on what they must be thinking behind closed doors.

Tick Tock ......as people say.

You brought up his comment in regard to us changing our minds, so don't start with "last time i looked we are negotiating to leave, not negotiating to stay in" my point is that it is just his opinion he was giving and is not EU policy, and even if it were, that we quite likely have every right to say we are staying in after all, and remain on current terms.