[Politics] Brexit

[Is it PotG?]

No doubt. But Europe has a civilised and workable system for this. Which we've cut ourselves off from today.

The rest of the world is not 'civilised'?

 

[pastafarian]

The best thing about Europe is Cheese and Tintin.

Has there ever been a Cheese World Cup?

 

[crasher]

The rest of the world is not 'civilised'?

That's not what I said. But no other part of the world has built a mutually supportive network like this.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

It's more an age/generational thing isn't it? Those of us who've been lucky enough to be employed, buy a home and build a pension pot can afford these luxuries. Our kids. less so.

True,although the same can be said about the housing market too....still that's another story.

 

[Soulman]

That will be Remain then-we leavers are all thick and mere peasants.

Speak for yourself, i am a retard and a moron........as of today.........ok i'll take thick as well.

 

[The Rivet]

See my other posts. No one should simply be able to move to another country and start living off the state. (That's not possible now unless you're granted asylum or unless you're awaiting the outcome of an immigration application. And even in those cases the support is minimal).

But what's wrong with going to work in another country and, after a qualifying period, having the right to fall back on support if you suddenly need it. Meanwhile, your home country is offering the same arrangement in reverse to others.

Without this system, only people with considerable assets can live abroad.

How long would this qualifying period be for and at what level of paid taxation. Would you have a limit on your benefit payments linked to tax paid. Many big questions. The ideal is fine, practice not so fine. Therefore if you cannot support yourself independently you cannot expect to move around. You could if your own home country were responsible for paying benefits (at the going rate in the host) to you in your chosen country. Tell me what do you think that would do to Poland, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania and many others

 

[Soulman]

The best thing about Europe is Cheese and Tintin.

Has there ever been a Cheese World Cup?

Briezil were in it.......

 

[gordonchas]

See my other posts. No one should simply be able to move to another country and start living off the state. (That's not possible now unless you're granted asylum or unless you're awaiting the outcome of an immigration application. And even in those cases the support is minimal).

But what's wrong with going to work in another country and, after a qualifying period, having the right to fall back on support if you suddenly need it. Meanwhile, your home country is offering the same arrangement in reverse to others.

Without this system, only people with considerable assets can live abroad.

I don't understand what you're getting at.

Take Spain. Assuming someone under 30 can even find a job there, you will get zero health cover until you have made social security payments and at best you'll only ever be entitled to two years of unemployment benefit before that stops entirely. You wouldn't even get the latter if you were self-employed

That applies whether you're British or Bolivian, so membership of the EU has nothing to do with it.

Technically an EU citizen has the right to live there, but the Spanish reserve the right to kick you out if you have no means of supporting yourself.

It seems that a large number of people are under the wholly mistaken impression that the rest of the EU offers the same ludicrously generous benefits as the British and Germans.

 

[Wellesley]

The fact they don't think it's cool to take their tops off exposing flabby, pasty and sunburnt skin whilst eating chips from polystyrene trays.

The best thing about Europe is that it allowed cocks like you in.

 

[nicko31]

Very sad day

Very sad that many who voted out, somehow thought Europe was responsible for all their woes. Misguided and conned I'm afraid

 

[crasher]

How long would this qualifying period be for and at what level of paid taxation. Would you have a limit on your benefit payments linked to tax paid. Many big questions. The ideal is fine, practice not so fine. Therefore if you cannot support yourself independently you cannot expect to move around. You could if your own home country were responsible for paying benefits (at the going rate in the host) to you in your chosen country. Tell me what do you think that would do to Poland, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania and many others

This system already exists in the EU - it already works in practice. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521 As a migrant, you're not automatically entitled to benefits. But you are if you pass, in the UK, a 'habitual residents test'. Other EU countries will have slightly different arrangements but the principle is the same.

And it's worth remembering that benefits are also paid to people in work - millions of them.

 

[Soulman]

The best thing about Europe is that it allowed cocks like you in.

Now that is.........................Spot on

 

[nicko31]

Do you guys really not see the hypocracy that seems to emanate from Leave supporters? Remain supporters thought there were enough sensible Brits to ensure we did not vote Leave, we were wrong, as could you be about the Scotch. You say that the UK will never go back to the EU, but if Scotland does choose independence then it will come running back with its' tail between its legs. Can you not see your double standards?

Many Leavers really do deserve the stupid tag, or they are just to full of bluster to see the big important picture, perhaps preferring to focus on minor issues that do not challenge their intellect too much? Whatever happens it is going to be tough to pull the country together, and there will be problems, but to overcome them you have to face the issues not turn a blind eye and cross your fingers.

Its the sad face of nationalism, English and Scottish. Both are ugly

 

[pastafarian]

It's answering all those questions........

Spot On

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I was told not so long ago that £250k is worth approx £1m in Poland,from a Polish co worker,he deserves it if true as he is a real decent bloke,very hard working as are all the Poles i work with..

 

[Is it PotG?]

The best thing about Europe is that it allowed cocks like you in.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

I'm not a patriot and not bothered either way tbh, I like thing about Europe but like very little about the UK if I'm honest I think britian is a s***hole full of " I love Britain and I'm proud" patriots who say just that but when it comes to rights,sticking up for the country,taxes,freedom etc they just do nothing. I still remember the "if petrol goes above a pound we will all protest" ... "I meant when it goes over 1.10" apart from the NHS there is nothing to be proud of in my opinion, no industry anymore, corrupt American wannabe politians,TV programmes such as TOWIE,corrupt media the list is endless of what Britian fails at !

 

[crasher]

I don't understand what you're getting at.

Take Spain. Assuming someone under 30 can even find a job there, you will get zero health cover until you have made social security payments and at best you'll only ever be entitled to two years of unemployment benefit before that stops entirely. You wouldn't even get the latter if you were self-employed

That applies whether you're British or Bolivian, so membership of the EU has nothing to do with it.

Technically an EU citizen has the right to live there, but the Spanish reserve the right to kick you out if you have no means of supporting yourself.

It seems that a large number of people are under the wholly mistaken impression that the rest of the EU offers the same ludicrously generous benefits as the British and Germans.

Sorry but I think you're wrong. There is a reciprocal principle in the EU that migrant workers are entitled to roughly equivalent benefits to native residents. They each have a slightly different system of applying it but it's the case. I've pasted a bit of that BBC explainer below. Whether Spain has agreements with other non-EU countries I don't know. But there IS a difference for EU members.


Is the UK benefits system more generous than those in other EU countries?

The systems are very diverse, so comparisons are difficult.

In terms of total spending on social security per inhabitant, the UK does not rank highest. In the UK the figure for 2010 was nearly 8,000 euros (£6,660; $10,880), the EU statistics agency Eurostat reports. In France and Germany it was nearly 9,000 euros, while in Denmark and the Netherlands it was above 10,000. At the other end of the scale, spending in Bulgaria and Romania was below 2,000 euros.

The Open Europe think-tank, campaigning for radical reform of the EU, says some countries have more flexibility than the UK in the area of "social assistance" benefits. Such benefits - targeting people in need - are usually means-tested and come out of general taxation, rather than salary contributions. In the UK, income support and housing benefit fall into that category.

In the UK, a bigger portion of welfare is funded by the state than is the case in Poland, France, Germany or the Netherlands. In those countries, more is funded from individual and employer contributions. In other words, more benefits are linked to previous earnings.

On the other hand, in several countries, including the Republic of Ireland, Sweden and Denmark, the share of state funding is higher than in the UK.

In Germany, there is a two-tier welfare system - part based on contributions, part non-contributory. An EU migrant made jobless in Germany would get up to 70% of current salary in the first year of unemployment. After that, the unemployed go onto a non-contributory system called Hartz IV. Germany has objected to paying those benefits to EU migrants who have not made sufficient contributions through work. But that policy has been challenged in the courts.

In Spain, welfare payments depend to a large extent on where you live as payments are handled regionally, rather than centrally. In Madrid there is a two-year residency test for RMI, which is paid to unemployed jobseekers. The benefits system in the Basque Country is rather less restrictive.

In Bulgaria, the EU's poorest country, you do not qualify for unemployment benefit unless you have been working for at least nine of the last 15 months.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521

 

[beorhthelm]

That's not what I said. But no other part of the world has built a mutually supportive network like this.

i think you're overstating what the rights EU provides. beyond obtaining a visa, its not much different from going to a non-EU country. if you pay into local funds, you'll get sick/unemployment, just as you would elsewhere. technically, you have to be able to support yourself to move to just about anywhere in EU, its supposed to be a freedom of movement of labour.

 

[Stato]

I'd like to nominate the Swedish Garage Punk Revival of the 1980s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybUOC2EcXKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJhhKvhZLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VD-5exab0k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HafTlP_piCk