[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

I can accept that the EU is an evolving thing, and it's structure and direction may change. However, Cameron got a few concessions from the EU that would have come into force if we had voted remain. One of those concessions was that Britain would not be forced into any greater union and that membership of the EEA would not be lost by staying away from any further integration. So whatever the evolution of the EU, Britain would not change much.
I think this is the motivator for many leave voters, nothing much would change with remain, if you feel a bit downtrodden, why would you want things to remain the same? The answer I came to, was that it is not the EU that is the cause of most of our problems, and in fact does many things that are of benefit.
Out could mean little change if we are out like Norway, or massive change if we are out like America.

I believe, and I don't have the details at hand, that Cameron's concessions were not set in stone. I am sure it was proved/stated that these "concessions could be/would be ignored after the referendum. I do wonder whether paying lipservice by Dave and Angie, was a plan to keep us in the EU.
Obviously the majority of the voters were not fooled.

 

[Baldseagull]

which 2?
1 and 3?
1 and 2?

I tell you what, if you will direct me to the post in which I gave you cause to attribute to me the belief that no one knew what they were voting for, I will answer this question for you. If you can't do that, and I don't believe you can, I will also answer this question if you will admit to your error. If you can't do that either, I don't think I will waste anymore time on this point. We both know what I think.

 

[pastafarian]

you think Britons are US and the rest of the EU is THEM.

what post number did i say that then?

 

[Baldseagull]

I believe, and I don't have the details at hand, that Cameron's concessions were not set in stone. I am sure it was proved/stated that these "concessions could be/would be ignored after the referendum. I do wonder whether paying lipservice by Dave and Angie, was a plan to keep us in the EU.
Obviously the majority of the voters were not fooled.

You are correct, up to a point, the concessions were dependant on Britain telling the EU it wished to remain. Clearly no point putting special measures of membership into law if we tell the EU we are leaving.
I don't know if these concessions would still be on the table if we had a second referendum.

 

[pastafarian]

I tell you what, if you will direct me to the post in which I gave you cause to attribute to me the belief that no one knew what they were voting for, I will answer this question for you. If you can't do that, and I don't believe you can, I will also answer this question if you will admit to your error. If you can't do that either, I don't think I will waste anymore time on this point. We both know what I think.

actually i dont know what you think at all
for some bizarre reason you wont answer ...you seem to be stuck on 2 out of 4 ....but which 2?

lets try again, 4 questions 4 simple answers

1/ did remain voters know what they were voting for?
2/ did remain voters know what the official vote remain group were promoting and protesting against?
3/ did leave voter know what they were voting for?
4/ did leave voters know what the official vote Leave group were promoting and protesting against?

 

[Soulman]

You are correct, up to a point, the concessions were dependant on Britain telling the EU it wished to remain. Clearly no point putting special measures of membership into law if we tell the EU we are leaving.
I don't know if these concessions would still be on the table if we had a second referendum.

Personally I do not think the concessions would be on the table if we had voted Remain. In fact why would concessions be needed if we left. They were put in "place" if we remained, but we're not binding. As I say there were get out clauses in place and the concessions could/would be taken away once Cameron and the EU got the result they wanted.
Unfortunately the result was not to their liking.

 

[Baldseagull]

what post number did i say that then?

I did not say you posted that, I said you voted in a way that suggested that. But feel free to enlighten me on how your vote for Leave was not about stopping THEM being able to have the opportunity to work here alongside US. Or US not having to play by the same rules as THEM. Or any other way you feel your leave vote is for the greater good of all.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

You still don't know what it means if you think any of that lot represent anarchy. I suspect you are just fishing though, no one is that stupid and still able to use a keyboard.

Yes fishing is probably right. Anarchy is one of those words that is a bit ambiguous, in that you will see different interpretations depending on what you believe. I like this one,
"While the popular understanding of anarchism is of a violent, anti-State movement, anarchism is a much more subtle and nuanced tradition then a simple opposition to government power. Anarchists oppose the idea that power and domination are necessary for society, and instead advocate more co-operative, anti-hierarchical forms of social, political and economic organisation."
The whole Brexit narrative was complete bollocks, on both sides. The vote to leave was all about mass disaffection with political systems that continue to not serve the people. As we have seen in the US with the Trump vote, and may well see in Europe again with the French and Italians leaning towards extreme or non-political alternatives.

 

[Baldseagull]

actually i dont know what you think at all
for some bizarre reason you wont answer ...you seem to be stuck on 2 out of 4 ....but which 2?

lets try again, 4 questions 4 simple answers

1/ did remain voters know what they were voting for?
2/ did remain voters know what the official vote remain group were promoting and protesting against?
3/ did leave voter know what they were voting for?
4/ did leave voters know what the official vote Leave group were promoting and protesting against?

I need your help to get unstuck here mate, back up your claims or retract them. It is really easy to do if you have the maturity to admit a mistake, or the evidence of your claim.
Do that and we can carry on the game.

 

[pastafarian]

I did not say you posted that, I said you voted in a way that suggested that. But feel free to enlighten me on how your vote for Leave was not about stopping THEM being able to have the opportunity to work here alongside US. Or US not having to play by the same rules as THEM. Or any other way you feel your leave vote is for the greater good of all.

My leave vote was to end supremacy of the ECj,It was to return more law making powers to westminster, it was to leave being members of the EU single market, it was to trade with them as non members. My vote was to regain control of our borders and end free movement so everyone EU and non EU have to play by the same rules to enter the country free from discrimination.

i have no idea who you are labelling as "them"

 

[pastafarian]

I need your help to get unstuck here mate, back up your claims or retract them. It is really easy to do if you have the maturity to admit a mistake, or the evidence of your claim.
Do that and we can carry on the game.

4 easy questions
1/ did remain voters know what they were voting for?
2/ did remain voters know what the official vote remain group were promoting and protesting against?
3/ did leave voter know what they were voting for?
4/ did leave voters know what the official vote Leave group were promoting and protesting against?

you said yes to two but refuse to answer which 2.......why does someone do that? what are they trying to hide?
its very simple you answer all 4 and you will know the very answer to the question you are asking whether or not people knew what they were voting for

ball in your court

 

[GT49er]

So you would be happy if we are out of the EU, whatever the future relationship looked like then?

Thank the Lord! You've got it at last!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The veto is meaningless whilst our politicians are spineless like Thatcher at Maastricht. It's the slow slow ebbing effect.

As for law, that has been found to be highly subjective as the percentage alters dependent upon whichever vested party presents its figures.

Just out of interest, in what way do you feel Margaret Thatcher was spineless 'at Maastricht'?

 

[GT49er]

Just out of interest, in what way do you feel Margaret Thatcher was spineless 'at Maastricht'?

She probably would have been, bearing in mind her spineless performance in signing up to the Single European Act.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

4 easy questions
1/ did remain voters know what they were voting for?
2/ did remain voters know what the official vote remain group were promoting and protesting against?
3/ did leave voter know what they were voting for?
4/ did leave voters know what the official vote Leave group were promoting and protesting against?

you said yes to two but refuse to answer which 2.......why does someone do that? what are they trying to hide?
its very simple you answer all 4 and you will know the very answer to the question you are asking whether or not people knew what they were voting for

ball in your court

he doesn't play tennis, game ,set and match to you
regards
DR

 

[mikeyjh]

Thank the Lord! You've got it at last!

For someone so patently ill informed, that's very kind of patronising don't you think?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Italy is in countdown mode to Sunday's referendum which could further undermine the Euro and the EU, seal the fate of 8 banks, and even see Silvio Berlusconi back on the scene. Italy is in a desperate state. Anything could happen now.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6453/fear_and_trembling_in_italy_before_the_storm

My word, you are a pessimistic old stick. I'd have thought you'd have been more gloom and doomy over the news that Jaguar's new iPace is to be manufactured in Austria and that production of the Land Rover Discovery will switch to Slovakia in 2018 but I guess foreign gloom is better than British gloom. (Incidentally, there are reports that JLR hopes that the first of these might encourage the UK government to pile money into electric vehicle manufacture in this country so all might not be lost if May can come up with another few hundred million of our money.)

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

my word, you are a pessimistic old stick. I'd have thought you'd have been more gloom and doomy over the news that jaguar's new ipace is to be manufactured in austria and that production of the land rover discovery will switch to slovakia in 2018 but i guess foreign gloom is better than british gloom. (incidentally, there are reports that jlr hopes that the first of these might encourage the uk government to pile money into electric vehicle manufacture in this country so all might not be lost if may can come up with another few hundred million of our money.)

hark at the grim reaper
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

She probably would have been, bearing in mind her spineless performance in signing up to the Single European Act.

Oh sweet lord. I suppose by the same token we can blame Gordon Brown for entering a coalition with the LibDems on the basis that he might have done if he'd still been Prime Minister.

 

[GT49er]

For someone so patently ill informed, that's very kind of patronising don't you think?

I don't think he is so ill-informed as all that. After all, as I said, he has at least finally got it.