[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why else would we vote leave the EU though,why? To leave and then come back to a-free trade agreement (we had it) come back to paying a fee (£350M a week currently) and come back to a freedom of movement of people (we would still have to have it)....

We voted leave (i and many did) to avoid such a scenario,to take back control and to be rid of at the very least,freedom of movement and paying a fee to the EU.

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. Leaving the EU, but still having freedom of movement, like Norway, would achieve the aim of the vote.

 

[Two Professors]

Your reasoning is base on prejudiced assumption, your opinion presented as fact, your conclusions flawed and you have a predilection to slip into the language of a 21st century politician. Let's ease you off the soap box, deconstruct and rationalise the whole bugger's muddle.



It is and it illustrates two points. First, the EU is flexible in accommodating the desires of member states and there is no evidence to suggest that will not continue. Second it gives the lie to the obviously popular misconception that there an evil bureaucratic force behind the scenes driving us to a terrible fate; rather decisions are made by member states after exhaustive negotiation, review and agreement.



Cameron's widely derided mission to Brussels did at least achieve some of his objectives, primarily convincing Tusk that when the EU Treaties were next opened they would include a new reference to make it clear that the words "ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom".

That is quite unequivocal then, no change immediately and the UK opt outs enshrined in EU Treaties going forward. We would have returned to the status quo. You are wrong.



Impressive, an assumption and a supposition in the same sentence. Simple opinion then, no logic, nothing of substance to see here.



It's true that economics has taken over from peace as the driving force behind the EU but to dismiss it's other fundamental aspirations as liberal idealism is conveniently simplistic and self serving, suiting your (to borrow your phrase) binary hypothesis.



Your paternalistic introductory assertion achieves a slightly hysterical note although the rest of the paragraph subsides in a rather less grandoise fashion into opinion based on what appears to be an agglomeration of econo-broadsheet-speak-waffle. Let's cut through the gobbledegook. The existing UK opt outs (along with those of Eire, Denmark and Poland) are enshrined in EU Treaties and these will be modified to exclude the UK from ever closer union. This is the current situation. This will be the situation going forward. You are arguing from a viewpoint informed by your prejudice as oppose to the facts. The status quo is on offer going forward. Economic literacy?! What are you on about?



See above.

If you were half as clever as you think you are,you would still be twice as clever as I think you are.Bore off

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. Leaving the EU, but still having freedom of movement, like Norway, would achieve the aim of the vote.

In the eyes of many on both sides,the larger majority of Leave vote however would not see it that way,now this is my opinion,it's Sunday and i cannot get drawn into a prove it,let's just state it's
Unsubstantiated on my part.....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you were half as clever as you think you are,you would still be twice as clever as I think you are.Bore off

So Diego is still clever. This is a rather shit put-down.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. Leaving the EU, but still having freedom of movement, like Norway, would achieve the aim of the vote.

Saw this and thought of you. Then reealised there is around 12 pages of tit for tat between Pastafarian and Rivet to wade through to get back to the point and gave up.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/04/wetherspoons-boss-tim-martin-interview

Some really interesting points;

I understand his EU scepticsm.
He does not have a coherent view of all things Europe.
He is a successful businessman partly due to his obsession to detail on everything associated with his business.
All in all quite informative.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why would you do that? for the Initial idea or the shambolic back tracking..

Because if they are not going to fight for us to stay in the single market they do not represent me.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Saw this and thought of you. Then reealised there is around 12 pages of tit for tat between Pastafarian and Rivet to wade through to get back to the point and gave up.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/04/wetherspoons-boss-tim-martin-interview

Some really interesting points;

I understand his EU scepticsm.
He does not have a coherent view of all things Europe.
He is a successful businessman partly due to his obsession to detail on everything associated with his business.
All in all quite informative.

I read this as well. Brexit clearly means many different things to many people. Which makes parliamentary scrutiny/a vote even more important.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Your reasoning is base on prejudiced assumption, your opinion presented as fact, your conclusions flawed and you have a predilection to slip into the language of a 21st century politician. Let's ease you off the soap box, deconstruct and rationalise the whole bugger's muddle.



It is and it illustrates two points. First, the EU is flexible in accommodating the desires of member states and there is no evidence to suggest that will not continue. Second it gives the lie to the obviously popular misconception that there an evil bureaucratic force behind the scenes driving us to a terrible fate; rather decisions are made by member states after exhaustive negotiation, review and agreement.



Cameron's widely derided mission to Brussels did at least achieve some of his objectives, primarily convincing Tusk that when the EU Treaties were next opened they would include a new reference to make it clear that the words "ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom".

That is quite unequivocal then, no change immediately and the UK opt outs enshrined in EU Treaties going forward. We would have returned to the status quo. You are wrong.



Impressive, an assumption and a supposition in the same sentence. Simple opinion then, no logic, nothing of substance to see here.



It's true that economics has taken over from peace as the driving force behind the EU but to dismiss it's other fundamental aspirations as liberal idealism is conveniently simplistic and self serving, suiting your (to borrow your phrase) binary hypothesis.



Your paternalistic introductory assertion achieves a slightly hysterical note although the rest of the paragraph subsides in a rather less grandoise fashion into opinion based on what appears to be an agglomeration of econo-broadsheet-speak-waffle. Let's cut through the gobbledegook. The existing UK opt outs (along with those of Eire, Denmark and Poland) are enshrined in EU Treaties and these will be modified to exclude the UK from ever closer union. This is the current situation. This will be the situation going forward. You are arguing from a viewpoint informed by your prejudice as oppose to the facts. The status quo is on offer going forward. Economic literacy?! What are you on about?



See above.

Goodness, you have turned from an interesting poster to a rather patronizing one. That's a shame. My view is as valid as yours but I didn't actually wade through it because of the tone at the beginning.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I read this as well. Brexit clearly means many different things to many people. Which makes parliamentary scrutiny/a vote even more important.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[drew]

Rubbish.Who discussed these several options?Leave or remain.

You have a short memory. Do you not remember the discussions about whether it was going to be the Swiss/Norway/Canada/WTO options or something else.

Why else would we vote leave the EU though,why? To leave and then come back to a-free trade agreement (we had it) come back to paying a fee (£350M a week currently) and come back to a freedom of movement of people (we would still have to have it)....

We voted leave (i and many did) to avoid such a scenario,to take back control and to be rid of at the very least,freedom of movement and paying a fee to the EU.

In the eyes of many on both sides,the larger majority of Leave vote however would not see it that way,now this is my opinion,it's Sunday and i cannot get drawn into a prove it,let's just state it's
Unsubstantiated on my part.....

In your opinion!!!! You cannot vouch for the reasons of all those that voted leave. You don't even know if it it was the majority that shared your view.

 

[nicko31]

I read this as well. Brexit clearly means many different things to many people. Which makes parliamentary scrutiny/a vote even more important.

Sadly, our government still doesn't understand parliamentary scrutiny. On they go to the supreme court when they should be getting on with the process.

We're fast looking like a laughing stock, carrying on like some kind of tin pot dictatorship.

 

[studio150]

Sadly, our government still doesn't understand parliamentary scrutiny. On they go to the supreme court when they should be getting on with the process.

We're fast looking like a laughing stock, carrying on like some kind of tin pot dictatorship.

But wouldn't a dictator have ensured the 'right result' from the judges and arrested the woman who brought the legal challenge.
I would also have expected the referendum result to have 98% at least agreeing with the dictator.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

The Establishment gave the populace an opportunity to voice their opinion. For the first time, in a very long time, this vote actually did count. Every vote was decisive, in or out. A fairly high number saw this as an opportunity to vote anti-Establishment, anti the political elite, anti vested interest. They had witnessed the exposure of corruption within the corridors of power. They had witnessed the corruption within the Banking fraternity. They had witnessed the extent of corporate greed in this country, of pension funds being raped and pillaged and of protectionism at work throughout Europe. They had witnessed the infra-structure and lifestyle of this country being changed irreversibly to the detriment of their children and grand-children and no effort being made to do anything about it.
But now the Establishment have the control back in their own hands again and they won't make the same silly mistake again. Letting the people of this country have a decisive say was madness. They don't know whats best for them, its our job to tell them whats best for them. The passive, uninformed masses, a world away from privilege, only interested in where the next pound is coming from to buy booze and fags, haven't got a clue what is going on. We, their elected representatives, know whats best for them.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

All the Tobys moaning about price rises should do one. Wont eat walkers crisps cos of that left wing Jug eared avertising them and i dont like peas so birds eye dont bother me. Should buy BRITISH computers not apples and its only the grammer police who use spellchekers anyway

regards
DR

 

[pastafarian]

You claim to all be outside supping cocktails and eating eggs from the fire, engage with whoever you are with rather than making a fool of yourself on here. I won't be engaging with you any further.

umm its called WIFI, its crazy amazing how you can connect with the internet. and im quite capable of multitasking with chatting to others whilst using a computer at the same time, and no its not rude, people are just chilling out reading the sundays, having a drink and doing their own thing.
You promised not to engage with me last time you promised not to engage with me anymore......yet here you are again. You have obvious flaws in everything you say.

 

[pastafarian]

All the Tobys moaning about price rises should do one. Wont eat walkers crisps cos of that left wing Jug eared avertising them and i dont like peas so birds eye dont bother me. Should buy BRITISH computers not apples and its only the grammer police who use spellchekers anyway

regards
DR

im fairly certain nearly everyone now knows you are a separate parody account of the real Ppf........bit sad chap you post this pretending to be someone else......very desperate.

 

[studio150]

Should buy BRITISH computers not apples

Such as?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Brexit benefits - British craft beer is more plentiful due to the drop in price. A small price drop in Burts Crisps as well.

 

[pastafarian]

Such as?

you know its a fake parody account?
not the real Ppf

 

[pastafarian]

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. Leaving the EU, but still having freedom of movement, like Norway, would achieve the aim of the vote.

You were obviously a bit sheltered from information and debates living in Germany.
But you will have to take my word for it that free movement was a widely discussed hot topic over here. Even some people on here think it was the single issue that leavers were obsessed with ending.
You would be wrong to assume Vote Leave were promoting keeping free movement after we leave The EU