[Politics] Brexit

[Hampster Gull]

Heseltine rightly saying we should enter into terms with the EU quickly, lead by the great Brexiteer Boris. We can then take the deal to the country and let them vote on the dogs breakfast we will have, either by an election or by a referendum. Democracy at its best as we decide whether its worth leaving for

 

[Triggaaar]

Remember having a discussion on here last year about the demise of British manufacturing, largely brought about by the toffs princes, thatcher. How she focused on turning us into a service based economy.

She focused on services as we were not competitive in manufacturing.

Probably been posted already but i thought Marr was on the money.

Agree there.

 

[The Rivet]

Heseltine rightly saying we should enter into terms with the EU quickly, lead by the great Brexiteer Boris. We can then take the deal to the country and let them vote on the dogs breakfast we will have, either by an election or by a referendum. Democracy at its best as we decide whether its worth leaving for

Argue with yourself, convince yourself. I don't care going to bed.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Argue with yourself, convince yourself. I don't care going to bed.

 

[Ernest]

He is a f**king idiot if he thinks we should invoke article 50 immediately. Sums his politics up, a complete loser

You obviously don't believe in democracy then

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Heseltine rightly saying we should enter into terms with the EU quickly, lead by the great Brexiteer Boris. We can then take the deal to the country and let them vote on the dogs breakfast we will have, either by an election or by a referendum. Democracy at its best as we decide whether its worth leaving for

Top marks for perseverance but it just isn't the same without the good old Hampster Gull HT double act

 

[Triggaaar]

Heseltine rightly saying we should enter into terms with the EU quickly, lead by the great Brexiteer Boris. We can then take the deal to the country and let them vote on the dogs breakfast we will have, either by an election or by a referendum. Democracy at its best as we decide whether its worth leaving for

You know that's ridiculous, right?

 

[East Preston Gull]

Heseltine rightly saying we should enter into terms with the EU quickly, lead by the great Brexiteer Boris. We can then take the deal to the country and let them vote on the dogs breakfast we will have, either by an election or by a referendum. Democracy at its best as we decide whether its worth leaving for

Heseltine, the man who helped send the interests rates up to 12-14%. E.R.M and his dream of Europe or nothing for the UK.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[beorhthelm]

...Jeremy Corbyn has said Article 50 must be invoked immediately and that a Leave vote prevailed because of anger against marginalisation and austerity.

He said the result of the poll means the exit clause – Article 50, which would give a two year period for Britain to leave – must be observed as soon as possible in an interview with the BBC.

showing his true colours as a leaver there, cant wait for us to get out.

 

[Easy 10]

Good article IMO

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/brexit-disaster-crisis-changes-left

Let’s sack the electorate and appoint a new one: this is the demand made by MPs, lawyers and the 4 million people who have signed the petition calling for a second referendum. It’s a cry of pain, and therefore understandable, but it’s also bad politics and bad democracy. Reduced to its essence, it amounts to graduates telling nongraduates: “We reject your democratic choice.”

Were this vote to be annulled (it won’t be), the result would be a full-scale class and culture war, riots and perhaps worse, pitching middle-class progressives against those on whose behalf they have claimed to speak, and permanently alienating people who have spent their lives feeling voiceless and powerless.

Yes, the Brexit vote has empowered the most gruesome collection of schemers, misfits, liars, extremists and puppets that British politics has produced in the modern era. It threatens to invoke a new age of demagoguery, a threat sharpened by the thought that if this can happen, so can Donald Trump.

It has provoked a resurgence of racism and an economic crisis whose dimensions remain unknown. It jeopardises the living world, the NHS, peace in Ireland and the rest of the European Union. It promotes what the billionaire Peter Hargreaves gleefully anticipated as “fantastic insecurity”.

But we’re stuck with it. There isn’t another option, unless you favour the years of limbo and chaos that would ensue from a continued failure to trigger article 50. It’s not just that we have no choice but to accept the result; we should embrace it and make of it what we can.
We cannot succumb to Brexit disaster. It’s time to campaign to save our future

It’s not as if the system that’s now crashing around us was functioning. The vote could be seen as a self-inflicted wound, or it could be seen as the eruption of an internal wound inflicted over many years by an economic oligarchy on the poor and the forgotten. The bogus theories on which our politics and economics are founded were going to collide with reality one day. The only questions were how and when.

Yes, the Brexit campaign was led by a political elite, funded by an economic elite and fuelled by a media elite. Yes, popular anger was channelled towards undeserving targets – migrants.

But the vote was also a howl of rage against exclusion, alienation and remote authority. That is why the slogan “take back control” resonated. If the left can’t work with this, what are we for?

So here is where we find ourselves. The economic system is not working, except for the likes of Philip Green. Neoliberalism has not delivered the meritocratic nirvana its theorists promised, but a rentiers’ paradise, offering staggering returns to whoever grabs the castle first while leaving productive workers on the wrong side of the moat.

The age of enterprise has become the age of unearned income, the age of the market the age of market failure, the age of opportunity a steel cage of zero-hours contracts, precarity and surveillance.

The political system is not working. Whoever you vote for, the same people win, because where power claims to be is not where power is.

Parliaments and councils embody paralysed force, gesture without motion, as the real decisions are taken elsewhere: by the money, for the money. Governments have actively conspired in this shift, negotiating fake trade treaties behind their voters’ backs to prevent democracy from controlling corporate capital.

Unreformed political funding ensures that parties have to listen to the rustle of notes before the bustle of votes. In Britain these problems are compounded by an electoral system that ensures most votes don’t count. This is why a referendum is almost the only means by which people can be heard, and why attempting to override it is a terrible idea.

Culture is not working. A worldview that insists both people and place are fungible is inherently hostile to the need for belonging. For years now we have been told that we do not belong, that we should shift out without complaint while others are shifted in to take our place.

When the peculiarities of community and place are swept away by the tides of capital, all that’s left is a globalised shopping culture, in which we engage with glazed passivity. Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chainstores.

In all these crises are opportunities – opportunities to reject, connect and erect, to build from these ruins a system that works for the people of this country rather than for an offshore elite that preys on insecurity.

If it is true that Britain will have to renegotiate its trade treaties, is this not the best chance we’ve had in decades to contain corporate power – of insisting that companies that operate here must offer proper contracts, share their profits, cut their emissions and pay their taxes? Is it not a chance to regain control of the public services slipping from our grasp?

How will politics in this sclerotic nation change without a maelstrom? In this chaos we can, if we are quick and clever, find a chance to strike a new contract: proportional representation, real devolution and a radical reform of campaign finance to ensure that millionaires can never again own our politics.

Remote authority has been rejected, so let’s use this moment to root our politics in a common celebration of place, to fight the epidemic of loneliness and rekindle common purpose, transcending the tensions between recent and less recent migrants (which means everyone else). In doing so, we might find a language in which liberal graduates can talk with the alienated people of Britain, rather than at them.

But most importantly, let’s address the task that the left and the centre have catastrophically neglected: developing a political and economic philosophy fit for the 21st century, rather than repeatedly microwaving the leftovers of the 20th (neoliberalism and Keynesianism). If the history of the last 80 years tells us anything, it’s that little changes without a new and feracious framework of thought.

So yes, despair and rage and curse at what has happened: there are reasons enough to do so. But then raise your eyes to where hope lies.

 

[SK1NT]

News night was a little depressing...


Gillian tett from the financial times New York was saying that brexit has caused a huge transatlantic split which is opening up between US banks and UK Banks and as far as the US and their Banks are concerned it has sealed the victory of the US banking sector on the global stage And they think UK AND EUROPEAN BANKS ARE IN THE DUST...

Any brexiters want to argue against the Editor of the financial times or the US bankers?

Maybe just spout some more simple little sound bites like "we have our sovereignty back", "we've reclaimed our boarders" ... Muppets

 

[SK1NT]

Just came across this:

Today the FTSE index ended up 2.64% at 6,140.39, while the FTSE 250 had gained 3.6%.
The pound also showed signs of recovery, rising 0.4% against the dollar to $1.3278 and adding 0.18% against the euro to €1.2018.

I thought we were plummeting into financial armageddon?

A lot of pigeons are coming home to roost.

see my post above... Just the beginning my friend... We haven't even implemented article 50 yet... Keep your powder dry... We ain't seen anything just yet... Btw this from the experts and not me... As I said read my post above... Btw banking is quite key to the UK

 

[SK1NT]

Remember having a discussion on here last year about the demise of British manufacturing, largely brought about by the toffs princes, thatcher. How she focused on turning us into a service based economy. Probably been posted already but i thought Marr was on the money.

o

I saw this on Sunday morning ... Marr was spot on and the program in general painted a very bleak picture thx to brexit

 

[SK1NT]

You know that's ridiculous, right?

Democracy is not always a good thing when idiots have a vote... Answer this... Why is Gillian tett saying the Atlantic gulf between US banks and UK banks is getting so great since brexit that the US believe UK and European banks are dust... How can u argue against the editor of the financial times??

You don't deserve a vote... People in Sunderland voting out when Nissan stated they may move out of the U.K. If we leave the EU. You need protecting from yourselves...

 

[The Fifth Column]

Probably 80 -90% of the people I know in Financial Services in London voted Remain (and I know a lot)!

Course they bloody did, self centred and up themselves and only interested in making themselves even more money, hardly a surprise they voted for the status quo. Slightly different for those of us that don't have a pot to piss in, still don't have a pot to piss in but interesting to see the whining coming from the likes of you who may have to endure a tiny bit of a financial hit.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Democracy is not always a good thing when idiots have a vote... Answer this... Why is Gillian tett saying the Atlantic gulf between US banks and UK banks is getting so great since brexit that the US believe UK and European banks are dust... How can u argue against the editor of the financial times??

You don't deserve a vote... People in Sunderland voting out when Nissan stated they may move out of the U.K. If we leave the EU. You need protecting from yourselves...

Another typically elitist post from a remainer obsessed with the financial markets, work in the city perchance?

 

[SK1NT]

Another typically elitist post from a remainer obsessed with the financial markets, work in the city perchance?

Maybe because it is the financial markets what has made london arguable the most important and powerful city in the world subsequently contributing to the UK having the 5th largest economy...

But hey ho let's forget the facts... Just sending me another ****ing Winnie the Pooh picture saying how we are still friends...

 

[The Fifth Column]

Maybe because it is the financial markets what has made london arguable the most important and powerful city in the world subsequently contributing to the UK having the 5th largest economy...

But hey ho let's forget the facts... Just sending me another ****ing Winnie the Pooh picture saying how we are still friends...

I trust and respect bankers and the financial sector about as much as I trust estate agents and used car salesman, the same financial institutions who have been the subject of several years of scandalous illegal practices seeing them fined hundreds of millions of pounds, the same financial markets that caused the global economy to almost collapse in 2008-09 (largely that would be those American banks Gillian Tett is wittering on about). I couldn't give a monkeys nut if the financial sector suffers as a result of Brexit and thousands of tosspot city types had to go out and find a real job, welcome to the real world.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Course they bloody did, self centred and up themselves and only interested in making themselves even more money, hardly a surprise they voted for the status quo. Slightly different for those of us that don't have a pot to piss in, still don't have a pot to piss in but interesting to see the whining coming from the likes of you who may have to endure a tiny bit of a financial hit.

They left towns and normal people to rot over the years because nobody in government supported Manufacturing. It was all about London, all about the finance industry, and not about building real value in Manufacturing jobs for the future. Our towns have changed, our jobs have changed, and because of the ridicolous rules on free movement set out by the EU, this has ensured our wages have been kept down, it hasn't worked.
.
The people have spoken now. People might have shot themself in the foot for a few years, but may be it needed something like this for government, the EU and big business to finally wake up and think of the rest of us.

JCB supported Brexit. At least they didn't sell their business off to foreign investors.

 

[Hamilton]