[Politics] Brexit

[BadFish]

So true. There's an awful lot of vitriol being thrown around on all the EU threads but democracy rules, OK!

No one ever said that democracy is perfect but history suggests it's the least bad option.

I think the only participants that should be ashamed of themselves are the Remain politicians for doing a lousy job of presenting a positive case for the EU and Brexiteers for suggesting that Brexit can take place without pain, possibly short term, but pain nevertheless, and their manifest failure to offer a clear plan post-Brexit.

As an older voter, who voted Remain, I'm disappointed but want to look ahead. If we get promotion next season that'll make up for it (as long as I can still afford the season ticket!).


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The dishonesty from both sides is despicable. This is to blame for the current bad feeling. IMHO of course.

Now the country needs some strong positive leadership.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

What do you propose we do now to take things forwards I would like to hear you honest unbiased views and whilst I would welcome we are up a creak without a paddle replies , what I am really after is workable solutions.

What is your preferred model Canada Norway or Swiss or New non EU UK?

It's happened and there is no turning back so where do we go from here?

Thank you.

I haven't read the whole thread so this has probably been covered, but...
I genuinely feel that there needs to be an administration in place that genuinely backs the Brexit agenda.
Trying to get a government that do not believe in the agenda to push through the required negotiations is doomed to fail.
I do not believe that Boris genuinely believes in the agenda and neither do 60-75% of the government.

The leave campaign made it clear there was no manifesto for what happens next, which has left a political vacuum on the most important issue affecting our country.

In my view we should have a general election with all parties focussing on how they will address Brexit.
Go back to the people and get them to elect a government that have a clear mandate on how Brexit should be implemented.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

If Scotland and N Ireland remain in the EU we could well be little Englanders. Great Britain would not exist if they split and our British passports would have to be changed to an English passport. To go to Europe we will require visas because the EU won't be planning on making it easy for us.

My main concern is keeping the UK and Great Britain on the map though.

They can't remain only apply if they become independent, which the feeling at present in Scotland will not be any time soon. Currently our passports are European union anyway. And visas are you serious?

 

[The Clamp]

Interestingly, the petition to consider a 2nd referendum was started by a LEAVE campaigner, William Healey, on May the 25th as he was expecting to lose.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you saying that leavers are right wing? I thought loads were disaffected labour voters.

it was. but the left have been trying to pretend to themselves that discontent with Europe is a Conservative only thing for the past few years, despite evidence to the contrary, and their own history with europe.

 

[Seagull58]

If (and we've yet to see what will happen) that's the way the EU are, I'm bloody glad we voted out.

If they don't want others to leave, they need to reform.

Very good to hear Merkel come out with some measured and stateswomanlike comments, putting her stroppy foreign minister back in his box at the same time. Ultimately, I think it is up to her and Hollarde to set the EU tone and determine how the negotiations proceed.

 

[El Presidente]

Nope, just a bit of housekeeping. A number of Corbyn threads and referendum threads have been merged, that's all.

 

[Captain Sensible]

LOL!

As I've said in previous posts, both sides of the debate think they're right, and are not for moving.

It's my opinion that prosperity is only partly due to being part of the EU. Other EU countries have not handled their finances as well as us, and have been/will be bailed out. We have a fantastic opportunity now to make further progress.

I know you're not going to agree with that, and only time will tell if either side was 'right'.

I have been waiting to hear what progress can be made outside of the EU, whilst stopping free movement, stopping EU laws and regulations, and yet keeping our single market access, from day one from leave campaign. As it is certainly impossible thing to do, I doubt it will ever be explained or ever become a reality.

 

[The Clamp]

Are you saying that leavers are right wing? I thought loads were disaffected labour voters.

I'm saying Loony is a right winger.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

If the UK invokes article 50 immediately, the clock starts ticking and our negotiation position is considerably weakened. The EU can effectively waffle for two years - they've had enough practice - and we'll pretty much have to take the deal we are offered.

If we don't trigger it then things will just drag on. Ok we might get a better deal from the EU but we may not. They hold all the cards, we have already played our ace. They know that we are going to leave and the only question is under what conditions.

I think our best - maybe our only - chance of getting a half decent settlement is if other countries start to hold their own leave referendums. That will put the fear of God into the EU and they may just give us a better deal just to get rid of us.

But that gives them a problem; the better the deal they give us the more other countries will want to leave.

How the hell did we get into this mess? It's a right buggers muddle.

I'll repeat what I said after the result was announced - be wary of what you wish for, you may just get it.

Anyone got a time machine I can borrow?

 

[mr sheen]

Back to this then mate? Things were all so good in the good old days before the awful EU started free trade and movement.

View attachment 76119

Haven't they mainly been replaced by the
Motability scheme?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There's been some thread merge I think as 10+ differrent threads was just silly.

 

[Seagull58]

I suspect that even if 10% of that figure gets put back directly into the NHS.. 1.8 billion per annum.... there are going to be some happy hospital administrators around the country...... by the way.. we only stop paying the EU once the whole exit deal is signed off and implemented.

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The NHS gets upwards of 100 BILLION per annum! It's the third largest organisation in the world, behind the chinese army and the Indian civil service. I am continually astonished at the demands to pour more and more and more money into it. It seems to have become a badge of honour to demand more money for the NHS to prove your credentials.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

This, unfortunately is what I thought we'd have to out up with. The Nation's right wing contingent gloating, flag waving and not realising the mess they have landed THEMSELVES in. Luckily there are still some intelligent people left in the country who are quietly going to reverse this ridiculous situation before the leavers even know what's happening. Hopefully anyway, the way this country is anything could happen, and indeed has. I've been saying that this country was ripe for the idiots to get the upper hand and they have. For now.

...as opposed to the cocky, the smug and the arrogant, all enjoying a very nice comfortable lifestyle, whilst whole swathes of this country are struggling and feel disenfranchised. UKIP was a warning that many chose to ignore. They derided and abused the likes of Farage, who were trying to inform as to the real agendas within the EU. Since greed and selfishness became the norm in this country, a lot of people now make decisions based on their own personal lifestyle. They live in a micro rather than a macro world. They do not put the country first and that includes most politicians. They tinker around the edges of all the important issues, whilst trying to maintain membership of an elitist club, set up to suit big business and vested interest.
This vote was a warning to all politicians. We are one of the biggest economies in Europe and yet we kept getting scraps off the table. We trust our representatives to negotiate good deals for us. Sadly, they didn't and they have paid the price. Our elected representatives had the chance to keep us in the EU. They blew that opportunity by accepting second and third best deals and allowing themselves to be politically bullied. Anyone with any semblance of intelligence knows that Germany call the shots and the rest rally behind them.
The arrogance shown by this post is one of the reasons, why the vote went the way it did. Describing whole swathes of the country as uneducated and stupid is immature and unworthy. A majority of people in this country have taught the smug and the arrogant a lesson. The next step is a complete change in the voting system in this country to also represent the wishes of the people, rather than protect the archaic and out of date system that sees a minority vote gain power.

 

[drew]

Be interesting to see how the Germans and French will cope with a new EU where I assume they will be the main contributors having to pick up the shortfall now there has been a Brexit

Don't forget the Italians as I believe they are net contributors. Also, they can make up the shortfall from us leaving (but bear in mind we may still make substantial contributions to allow access to the free market so the shortfall might not be that much). The alternative is they reduce the size of grants that are given and make savings that way.

 

[drew]

If the UK invokes article 50 immediately, the clock starts ticking and our negotiation position is considerably weakened. The EU can effectively waffle for two years - they've had enough practice - and we'll pretty much have to take the deal we are offered.

If we don't trigger it then things will just drag on. Ok we might get a better deal from the EU but we may not. They hold all the cards, we have already played our ace. They know that we are going to leave and the only question is under what conditions.

I think our best - maybe our only - chance of getting a half decent settlement is if other countries start to hold their own leave referendums. That will put the fear of God into the EU and they may just give us a better deal just to get rid of us.

But that gives them a problem; the better the deal they give us the more other countries will want to leave.

How the hell did we get into this mess? It's a right buggers muddle.

I'll repeat what I said after the result was announced - be wary of what you wish for, you may just get it.

Anyone got a time machine I can borrow?

I wonder how many others would like to use that time machine as well!!!

 

[The Clamp]

...as opposed to the cocky, the smug and the arrogant, all enjoying a very nice comfortable lifestyle, whilst whole swathes of this country are struggling and feel disenfranchised. UKIP was a warning that many chose to ignore. They derided and abused the likes of Farage, who were trying to inform as to the real agendas within the EU. Since greed and selfishness became the norm in this country, a lot of people now make decisions based on their own personal lifestyle. They live in a micro rather than a macro world. They do not put the country first and that includes most politicians. They tinker around the edges of all the important issues, whilst trying to maintain membership of an elitist club, set up to suit big business and vested interest.
This vote was a warning to all politicians. We are one of the biggest economies in Europe and yet we kept getting scraps off the table. We trust our representatives to negotiate good deals for us. Sadly, they didn't and they have paid the price. Our elected representatives had the chance to keep us in the EU. They blew that opportunity by accepting second and third best deals and allowing themselves to be politically bullied. Anyone with any semblance of intelligence knows that Germany call the shots and the rest rally behind them.
The arrogance shown by this post is one of the reasons, why the vote went the way it did. Describing whole swathes of the country as uneducated and stupid is immature and unworthy. A majority of people in this country have taught the smug and the arrogant a lesson. The next step is a complete change in the voting system in this country to also represent the wishes of the people, rather than protect the archaic and out of date system that sees a minority vote gain power.

What warning has been sent exactly? What lesson has been taught? "Stop taking all our money or we'll vote to make ourselves poorer".

A mess.

 

[beorhthelm]

I have been waiting to hear what progress can be made outside of the EU, whilst stopping free movement, stopping EU laws and regulations, and yet keeping our single market access, from day one from leave campaign. As it is certainly impossible thing to do, I doubt it will ever be explained or ever become a reality.

right here is the problem. you have been drawn so far in to the remain myth you dont even reconise the reality anymore. they never actually said there would be financial collapse, they said you might be a bit poorer in 2030 out of the EU, than you would be if in. because that was largely ignored they started saying there might be a recession on a shorter time scale, though they were less qualified about that and you should have seen this was an escalation of the fear. then they stated £ and stock market collapse, true we saw one of these but even that was half the claims. the fact is in reality nothing changed friday and will not change in laws or regulation for a couple of years, giveing time for people and companies to adjust. yes, we wont grow as much because of the distraction, but the forecast was/is to still grow. you wont be poorer, you might be a little less well off than you would otherwise have been , assuming a hundred other negative factors dont come to pass if in the EU. so in short, the remainers never said we wouldnt progress outside of EU, just progress a bit slower.

 

[One Love]

One of my reasons to vote leave is this-why does it seem to be deemed necessary to have migrant workers do menial tasks that our citizens wont?

I want to address the reasons behind why we have to have 'migrant workers in the first place for such jobs-sorry but I don't buy the English won't do jobs.....further my vote leave does not accept either.

My nephew is married to a Polish woman.

Her younger sister came over here to try and make a go of it and applied for many jobs. She started getting offered cleaning jobs, then aimed higher and went for bar/waitress work. Within one week she was offered 10 different jobs. She couldn't believe it was so easy to get work. She settled for two jobs because she is hard working which she does to this day.

 

[del strangefish]

Regrexit