[Politics] Brexit

[Green Cross Code Man]

A totally baseless claim contrary to the reality of the EU accession process. It simply cannot join if it can not complete the reform chapters. Regardless everyone gets a veto, including us.

Yeah, just like Greece, Portugal and Italy can't possibly join the euro unless they comply with the stability pact.....oh.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[Soulman]

So, many many posts in to this mammoth thread and I feel like it's worth asking this;

Has anyone actually reconsidered how they're likely to vote on referendum day during the lifespan (or even because) of this thread?

Genuinely curious if it has had an impact somewhere down the line or if it's a case of two entrenched sides throwing stats and 'facts' at each other for...reasons?

I think "entrenched" even further would be the possible answer, and i daresay that might apply to both sides.
I knew that the IN campaign would ramp up the spin and "facts", i did not realise how far (including the USA invite) they would go.......so i am more entrenched in my view than i was initially.

 

[GT49er]

Still waiting for any respectable body to endorse Brexit. I wonder if ASEAN has made a statement yet...how about ECOWAS? Save the Whales? British Beekeeping Union? A Great British Bake-off Facebook page editorial?

How about the Great British people?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So, many many posts in to this mammoth thread and I feel like it's worth asking this;

Has anyone actually reconsidered how they're likely to vote on referendum day during the lifespan (or even because) of this thread?

Genuinely curious if it has had an impact somewhere down the line or if it's a case of two entrenched sides throwing stats and 'facts' at each other for...reasons?

As far as I can remember I was first drawn in after HT made a typically obnoxious partisan anti Brexit statement on a long lost Referendum thread. I started off mildly pro Brexit after listening to the Remain arguments I knew Brexit was definitely the right choice.

It's been a war of attrition since then but has proved an enjoyable distraction from the end of season tension.

 

[cjd]

It has been about 6 weeks since the brexit poll started.

Can anyone put up a new poll to see if the voting has changed since this mammoth thread of wild accusations and nonsense has been posted....?

PS: I,m still voting for staying in but, if at all possible could Mr. Motormouth (aka HerrTubthumper) just be quiet for a while..?

 

[Soulman]

It has been about 6 weeks since the brexit poll started.

Can anyone put up a new poll to see if the voting has changed since this mammoth thread of wild accusations and nonsense has been posted....?

PS: I,m still voting for staying in but, if at all possible could Mr. Motormouth (aka HerrTubthumper) just be quiet for a while..?

Just think how noisy HT would be if he actually lived here.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The EU do not give a **** about us, apart from our money and economy.

Remember when Britain/Cameron said the EU needs reforming desperately and Junkers was not the man to do that.

How did that work out?

f

Isn't there a convention that a reply to a post should have some vague connection with the post in question?

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

I think "entrenched" even further would be the possible answer, and i daresay that might apply to both sides.
I knew that the IN campaign would ramp up the spin and "facts", i did not realise how far (including the USA invite) they would go.......so i am more entrenched in my view than i was initially.

As far as I can remember I was first drawn in after HT made a typically obnoxious partisan anti Brexit statement on a long lost Referendum thread. I started off mildly pro Brexit after listening to the Remain arguments I knew Brexit was definitely the right choice.

It's been a war of attrition since then but has proved an enjoyable distraction from the end of season tension.

Cheers both, that's how it seemed to me as a casual observer but there was no way I was reading through that many pages of (sometimes) vitriolic hooha for fun!

For me personally, without saying which way I'm leaning as I don't think it matters for what I'm saying next, neither side has yet to make anything close to a strong coherent case as to why they represent the best way forward. Just for clarity I'm not talking about this thread now, I mean the campaigns as a whole.

As soon as one 'side' provides a set of statistics, facts or chest thumping rhetoric the other is calling them liars and producing their own material, on the assumption that people will assume that they're the ones telling the truth.

I understand that's the nature of a campaign so it shouldn't be a surprise but with both sides seemingly desparate to ensure that they keep their base onside by throwing whatever they can at the opposition. To me it feels like people without a particularly strong inclination are just going to follow their gut instinct as until we go one way or the other no-one really knows (despite claiming otherwise) what's going to happen.

 

[GT49er]

So, many many posts in to this mammoth thread and I feel like it's worth asking this;

Has anyone actually reconsidered how they're likely to vote on referendum day during the lifespan (or even because) of this thread?

Genuinely curious if it has had an impact somewhere down the line or if it's a case of two entrenched sides throwing stats and 'facts' at each other for...reasons?

Fair question. Unlike a general election, there is no Lib Dem/Green/Monster Raving looney party alternative/protest vote available, so the two sides are entrenched. For what it's worth, I don't think Cameron's newly negotiated 'deal', or the remain campaign generally, have changed any minds; nobody really believes either. It's just down to what people think. It'll be close, but sadly I think the 'Shy Remainers' (equivalent to the 'Shy Tories' in the last election who were ashamed to admit to their voting intentions to the pollsters) will probably give slimy Dave, the Westminster bubble, and the City fat cats the result they want.
Hopefully, the British public will finally turn on its increasingly dishonest, corrupt and self serving politicians, and their chums, the bankers (a sort of ironic rhyming slang) and tell them to do one. Think collectively we're too brow-beaten now, and the scaremongers will win an ultimately disastrous victory. I won't be around for all that many more years, but I'm sickened that my kids and grandkids will suffer the consequences.

 

[Soulman]

Fair question. Unlike a general election, there is no Lib Dem/Green/Monster Raving looney party alternative/protest vote available, so the two sides are entrenched. For what it's worth, I don't think Cameron's newly negotiated deal, or the remain campaign generally, have changed any minds; nobody really believes either. It's just down to what people think. It'll b close, but sadly I think the 'Shy Remainers' (equivalent to the 'Shy Tories' in the last election who were ashamed to admit to their voting intentions to the pollsters) will probably give slimy Dave, the Westminster bubble, and the City fat cats the result they want.
Hopefully, the British public will finally turn on its increasingly dishonest, corrupt and self serving politicians, and their chums, the bankers (a sort of ironic rhyming slang) and tell them to do one. Think collectively we're too brow-beaten now, and the scaremongers will win an ultimately disastrous victory. I won't be around for all that many more years, but I'm sickened that my kids and grandkids will suffer the consequences.

I have very similar thoughts and worries.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

David Cameron is getting right on my tits......I will withhold my Conservative vote in the next local elections.......

 

[The Rivet]

David Cameron is getting right on my tits......I will withhold my Conservative vote in the next local elections.......

Don't forget arrogant Osborne and self serving Javid!

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Don't forget arrogant Osborne and self serving Javid!

Wasborn Osbourne..........he's been struck off...

 

[Hampster Gull]

Just think how noisy HT would be if he actually lived here.

The beauty for you of the EU freedom of movement is he doesn't have to. The irony

 

[5ways]

Cheers both, that's how it seemed to me as a casual observer but there was no way I was reading through that many pages of (sometimes) vitriolic hooha for fun!

For me personally, without saying which way I'm leaning as I don't think it matters for what I'm saying next, neither side has yet to make anything close to a strong coherent case as to why they represent the best way forward. Just for clarity I'm not talking about this thread now, I mean the campaigns as a whole.

As soon as one 'side' provides a set of statistics, facts or chest thumping rhetoric the other is calling them liars and producing their own material, on the assumption that people will assume that they're the ones telling the truth.

I understand that's the nature of a campaign so it shouldn't be a surprise but with both sides seemingly desparate to ensure that they keep their base onside by throwing whatever they can at the opposition. To me it feels like people without a particularly strong inclination are just going to follow their gut instinct as until we go one way or the other no-one really knows (despite claiming otherwise) what's going to happen.

My biggest gripe with Brexit is that they have never produced statistics, papers, reports on how Brexit will practically benefit us. Remain has lots and lots of reports and publications, from government, international organisations and civil society and these are answered only with straight dismissal.There's never a counter publication from the OECD or IMF. There's never a world class university telling us Brexit will make us better off. Just anger and bluster. There is also no clear plan of what will happen and what we will do after Brexit. I have yet to see a Brexit road-map, why hasn't the Out campaign published one? Day 1, day 30, day 100, day 500 etc.

You say one side counters the other's material, there is no mass of pro-Brexit material that comes from credible sources.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Your very certain. Like the £4,300?

Cameron has promised Turkey that he'll support them becoming EU members.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

The beauty for you of the EU freedom of movement is he doesn't have to. The irony

We will let you have that one....when you going? After brexit

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

My biggest gripe with Brexit is that they have never produced statistics, papers, reports on how Brexit will practically benefit us. Remain has lots and lots of reports and publications, from government, international organisations and civil society and these are answered only with straight dismissal.There's never a counter publication from the OECD or IMF. There's never a world class university telling us Brexit will make us better off. Just anger and bluster. There is also no clear plan of what will happen and what we will do after Brexit. I have yet to see a Brexit road-map, why hasn't the Out campaign published one? Day 1, day 30, day 100, day 500 etc.

You say one side counters the other's material, there is no mass of pro-Brexit material that comes from credible sources.

Blame the likes of David Cameron and Corbin.........if they were true to themselves and us then they would have done so by now...

 

[Soulman]

The beauty for you of the EU freedom of movement is he doesn't have to. The irony

Obviously, but i tend to take note of those that do live here. I could not see myself going on another countries referendum.

 

[GT49er]

You say one side counters the other's material, there is no mass of pro-Brexit material that comes from credible sources.

Can you find one post saying, 'Yes, I have been so convinced by the remainers' scaremongering, that I'm now going to change my mind and vote 'remain' instead of Brexit'?