[Politics] Brexit

[DTES]

I understand and I'm being facetious. It just seems to me that no-one much on the remain side actually likes much of what is going on in the EU anyway.

Ah ok - bit of a Whoosh moment for me there!

I don't disagree - I think to a large extent this referendum is about the lesser of two evils, but personally I do think Leave is by far the worse of the options.

 

[DTES]

HAS YOUR LIFE STYLE CHANGED SINCE BEING IN THE EU??
regards
DR

Hey PPF - I had this e-mail at work today, thought you'd like it. 60%, eh?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

No, we're not joining the Euro. There are no plans to join the Euro. We have the best of both worlds and are the envy of many eurozone countries. Greater control of currency and great benefit of internal market.

There are no plans to join the Euro in the same way political parties say they have no plans to raise taxes ... but always do. In my view It's almost a certainty we will end up in the euro (unless it implodes) if we vote remain and the proponents will use the same dubious reasoning that so many use now ... have to be in the first Tier of the EU for influence... vital for our economic future .... better to be at the heart of Europe ... we can't prosper outside it etc etc.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It's about balance and pros and cons. Brexiters have very few unemotional arguments and if all else fails they just lob in a word they don't like to avoid having to properly weigh the pros and cons. For example, experts (all of them pretty much) say Brexit will damage the UK economy severely. Answer: Well didn't some of them maybe want to join the Euro?

There are many good reasons to stay or to remain. It seems to me that the stay campaign is very negative in that all the leading figures are just trying to say we won't have as much money. This is of course a complete unknown. Personally, I don't trust government figures on projected wealth.

Ah ok - bit of a Whoosh moment for me there!

I don't disagree - I think to a large extent this referendum is about the lesser of two evils, but personally I do think Leave is by far the worse of the options.

Lol! No problem.

I reiterate, there are VERY few times a leading member of the remain campaign has actually told us how great the EU actually is. It seems even those leaders who want to remain, aren't that enthusiastic. It's hardly inspiring and could damage the remain vote.

 

[5ways]

There are many good reasons to stay or to remain. It seems to me that the stay campaign is very negative in that all the leading figures are just trying to say we won't have as much money. This is of course a complete unknown. Personally, I don't trust government figures on projected wealth.



Lol! No problem.

I reiterate, there are VERY few times a leading member of the remain campaign has actually told us how great the EU actually is. It seems even those leaders who want to remain, aren't that enthusiastic. It's hardly inspiring and could damage the remain vote.

No no no. It is not a complete unknown. Ask any independent body that might know - the Bank of England, the Government, the LSE, private consultancy, the IMF, every living US treasury secretary - they say the same thing - we. will. be. poorer. There is not a single shred of evidence that we will be better off outside the EU.

Kate Hoey couldn't answer it when Andrew Neil asked if any reputable body backs Brexit because there are none. She is absolutely flailing because it is an indefensible position.

go to 9 minutes 30.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

No no no. It is not a complete unknown. Ask any independent body that might know - the Bank of England, the Government, the LSE, private consultancy, the IMF, every living US treasury secretary - they say the same thing - we. will. be. poorer. There is not a single shred of evidence that we will be better off outside the EU.

Kate Hoey couldn't answer it when Andrew Neil asked if any reputable body backs Brexit because there are none

Do you think the prime minister in 1993 knew what would happen in our economy in 2007 when the credit crunch hit? The remain campaign has been forecasting for the year 2030. They are clueless.

And in any case, I am not so much of a capitalist that I need so much extra. We are massively richer than 30 years ago but it's debatable that everything is so rosy now.

As Socrates said about luxuries, there are so many things I don't need.

 

[5ways]

There are no plans to join the Euro in the same way political parties say they have no plans to raise taxes ... but always do. In my view It's almost a certainty we will end up in the euro (unless it implodes) if we vote remain and the proponents will use the same dubious reasoning that so many use now ... have to be in the first Tier of the EU for influence... vital for our economic future .... better to be at the heart of Europe ... we can't prosper outside it etc etc.

Project Fearxit ?

 

[5ways]

Do you think the prime minister in 1993 knew what would happen in our economy in 2007 when the credit crunch hit? The remain campaign has been forecasting for the year 2030. They are clueless.

And in any case, I am not so much of a capitalist that I need so much extra. We are massively richer than 30 years ago but it's debatable that everything is so rosy now.

That argument basically rests on 'well it might turn out okay, f**k it let's do it - what's the worse that could happen?'' Well the worse that could happen seems to range from 6% to 10% lower GDP than remain. That is thousands of pounds, perhaps £4300, to your typical family. That will convince no-one who is on the fence.

 

[DTES]

Do you think the prime minister in 1993 knew what would happen in our economy in 2007 when the credit crunch hit? The remain campaign has been forecasting for the year 2030. They are clueless.

Giles Wilkes put it a lot better than I could:

"There's going to be a lot of confusion between forecasting and analysis in the next 48 hours. Put it this way: I can't forecast what my weight will be next year. I can accept analysis that eating a pound of butter a day will make me much fatter."

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Project Fearxit ?

Come now you know this is far more likely to occur than the comical doomsday economic forecasts for Brexit. It is understandable for remain to go down this path as they know the arguments cannot be won with truth/hard facts. Their pitch is hold your nose and vote remain, ignore all the obvious failings of the EU, fingers crossed ever closer union will pass us by, fingers crossed the eurocrisis will come to a happy ending, fingers crossed the migrant crisis will magically disappear, fingers crossed our 2nd tier membership will give us all the benefits promised, just remember it will always be worse if you are stupid enough to try and regain more control of your own destiny.

Funnily enough it will probably be the case whoever loses will end up saying I told you so in the next few years

 

[pastafarian]

It's about balance and pros and cons. Brexiters have very few unemotional arguments and if all else fails they just lob in a word they don't like to avoid having to properly weigh the pros and cons. For example, experts (all of them pretty much) say Brexit will damage the UK economy severely. Answer: Well didn't some of them maybe want to join the Euro?

lobbing in the word Euro is a fair call in my opinion,its rather a good back up if "all else fails"

it beats the hell when "all else fails" of resorting to lobbing in words like racists, xenophobes and Little Englanders, as some have chosen to do (not you)

 

[Two Professors]

That argument basically rests on 'well it might turn out okay, f**k it let's do it - what's the worse that could happen?'' Well the worse that could happen seems to range from 6% to 10% lower GDP than remain. That is thousands of pounds, perhaps £4300, to your typical family. That will convince no-one who is on the fence.

You really should read the papers-you might not appear to be such a numpty then.Perhaps this man knows a bit more about economics than you:

 

[5ways]

Come now you know this is far more likely to occur than the comical doomsday economic forecasts for Brexit. It is understandable for remain to go down this path as they know the arguments cannot be won with truth/hard facts. Their pitch is hold your nose and vote remain, ignore all the obvious failings of the EU, fingers crossed ever closer union will pass us by, fingers crossed the eurocrisis will come to a happy ending, fingers crossed the migrant crisis will magically disappear, fingers crossed our 2nd tier membership will give us all the benefits promised, just remember it will always be worse if you are stupid enough to try and regain more control of your own destiny.

Funnily enough it will probably be the case whoever loses will end up saying I told you so in the next few years

The only winner is hindsight.

 

[5ways]

You really should read the papers-you might not appear to be such a numpty then.Perhaps this man knows a bit more about economics than you:View attachment 73864

He's not off the fence - unlike the sitting Governor who in BoE reports have been quite clear. If he were to come out for Brexit that would increase the number of respected economic figures voting out from 0 to 1.

 

[cunning fergus]

It's about balance and pros and cons. Brexiters have very few unemotional arguments and if all else fails they just lob in a word they don't like to avoid having to properly weigh the pros and cons. For example, experts (all of them pretty much) say Brexit will damage the UK economy severely. Answer: Well didn't some of them maybe want to join the Euro?

Wanting to stay in the EU and not join the euro, is of itself counter intuitive.

The trading bloc that remainders want to be a part of has a significant group of states that use the same currency, and therefore those states have integrated themselves much more than those other states who have not adopted the euro.

The future we do know about will require the Eurozone states to integrate even further for their currency to survive and that will involve a lot of risk and pain.

Assuming they do this successfully these states will set the political and economic rhythm of the EU. Those states that have not will have little influence to prevent policies that suit the Eurozone bloc to the detriment of guise that have not.

This is why when inners say that being in the EU means we can influence the policies, they are either fools or liars. We have little influence now and will patently have less in future.

Joining the euro is the only way such a sentiment about the UK's influence in the EU would be credible.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Is it really only 5000 years?

Seems we are a bit older than that,was way out..http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/huge-ice-age-river-carved-the-english-channel-1831107.html

Edit and before you ask.....no i do not read the Independent...

 

[Hampster Gull]

Obama is telling us to stay in the Uk. Good point

 

[Maldini]

Wanting to stay in the EU and not join the euro, is of itself counter intuitive.
.

The hyprocrisy of it. If the Remain camp want so much to be in then it has to be all the way.Don't cherry pick.

Mind you good job they did because those desperate for us to take on the Euro have been proved to be fools.

 

[Maldini]

When the Remain camp win and I think they will then kiss goodbye to the UK as we have known it for years.

Fast forward 20/30 years and we'll be living in part of a European superstate.As a Brit you will be a minority in your town.
As C of E or a Catholic you will also not be part of the largest religious group and will probably be living under Sharia law.
We will all be speaking english whichever state of Europe you are living in so thats ok.
In fact there will be so many similarities between one state and the next that you'll feel at home whether in
Greece or Turkey even.

It's all good.

 

[Irish_Seagull]

If the EU Referendum was today.

Brexiters have very few unemotional arguments

I find it amusing when two Brits are arguing about whether the elected wealthy Brits or wealthy unelected people should run their country

if all else fails they just lob in a word they don't like to avoid having to properly..... [/QOUTE]

Using a straw man tactic is the norm in British politics.

Im surprised those voting for independence have not been called racist.

For example, experts (all of them pretty much) say Brexit will damage the UK economy severely.

You can find "experts" that will support anything.