[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Didn’t seem foolish to me as valid an opinion as others

valid
/ˈvalɪd/

adjective
(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
"a valid criticism"

It is certainly an opinion, but it's not a valid opinion, unless there is evidence of a French cover up like the Champions League Final causing the problems at Dover

Predictable. The French Government lied about Liverpool fans at the Champions League Final. An enormous cover up of systematic organizational failure that was obvious to all and exposed in their public enquiry. The whole thing was particularly sick given the cover ups over here over Hillsborough. The reaction of most of NSC ? Blame the scousers. Whom should we blame this time I wonder.

Sorry

 

[Stat Brother]

If we'd stayed the Single Market our economy would be in a far stronger place now and going forward.

If we'd voted my neighbours cat as PM our economy would be in a far stronger place now and going forward.

 

[cunning fergus]

why would anyone choose to sit in a queue at Dover for 6 hours?

Unless you could name an EU legislation or example of being part of the EU that hindered people in such a direct way?

As above, I wouldn’t sit in the traffic, I would go to Portugal where there is no “administrative” difficulties from entering apart from sensible arrangements.

It is up to the EU and it’s members to decide who should come and go and how easy they want to make it………whilst things change having sensible security arrangements on who can enter a country are surely a good thing.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/asylum-seeker-who-lied-being-12230943

 

[BadFish]

Ah the favourite whinge of every Brexiteer you'll ever meet. "You remoaners think we're all thick and stupid. Well you lost, get over it". I'm embarrassed for you that you think this is still where we're at.

Where we're at more accurately, is that anyone who voted Brexit and still refuses to acknowledge any of the problems that are caused by that decision, and would rather blame everybody else than come up with some answers - IS a moron. And what a lot of problems there have been. We'll ignore these trivial border issues if you like, let's talk about our EU exports being absolutely decimated, our farming and fishing industries going to the dogs or the destabilisation of Northern Ireland for which no Brexiteer ever has an answer and just blames the EU for having the temerity of wanting to enforce a Tory negotiated protocol.

I won't call anyone who voted leave a moron, but I'm not having this. You voted for this mess, it's time you rolled your sleeves up and came up with some answers to deal with issues rather than ALWAYS blaming someone else. And if you can't do that, we will absolutely need to have another referendum. This isn't going away, we're not moving on because this constant turmoil is absolute shite and most of us don't want it.

Genuine question from someone who isn't there: Is there any genuine appetite for another referendum? I know this was mooted before the breakaway actually happened (but was thwarted by the quality argument of 'we won, you lost, get over it. You can't just vote again in a democracy - where on earth would you find a precedent for this?). Now with a chance to reflect and take a look at what Brexit has caused (or alternatively dive so deep into cognitive dissonance one can't remember their own name) is there a movement to try and reverse some of the damage caused?

Or alternatively are the younger generations just waiting for the numbers of boomers to drop off before trying again?
[MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION], I would be interested in your insights on this too. Are you lot sticking to the 'none of this shit has been affected by Brexit, we won, get over it' (look the unions!!). Or are brexiteers ready to engage in some discussion on how to short some of this shit out.

 

[Randy McNob]

If we'd stayed the Single Market our economy would be in a far stronger place now and going forward.

It's the conservatives who ended freedom of movement, the EU didn't force that on us, and had very little to do with the 2016 referendum.

Vote them out in 2024 is my advice, Hopefully we'll have some adults in charge who will work in our best interests rather than against

booting out the the below idiot would be a good start? (she voted to end freedom of movement)

[tweet]1550430647239540736[/tweet]

 

[Springal]

Quite funny how there’s no ‘Chaos at Heathrow’ where for months queues at immigration at T3 and T5 have snaked round the arrival terminal for miles. Trip back from Munich last month took 50minutes to get through. Maybe need to get our own house in order before shouting at others ?

 

[rogersix]

Fair point, however from my point of view poor/rude customer service needs calling out to the employer, it's how a great business work....through feedback...i gave mine and all justifiable, if the employer chooses to not take my point on, then I can choose not to give my cash to them until I am ready. I need to see that they deal with customers in the right way in the future.



Are they better cooks, they cook crepe food.



Or conversely.

1.Brexit likes to be blamed from remoaners, and that's why the Brexit thread is still running all these years on.
2.They genuinely think Brexit is to blame. Making them closed in mind and only able to follow sensationalist media hyping headlines.

Ps have unions caused and travel chaos lately? have lefty warriors block roads deliberately causing more chaos?

The French need to get those booths maned at the busiest time of year, this is not rocket science and they didn't, it's all political. Basically they are not our friends, we should stop pretending they are.
Yet again the liberal left love to knock their country, even when they are completely wrong.
Some of you liberals are so anti British it's untrue. The reason you are, is purely political.
If labour or the lib Dems were in, I would not lose my birth nation just because of politics, born British and will always back Britain.
If ever I felt like you guys I would be gone, your hatred for our country is always being promoted. Just go guys, you will feel better for it and so will our country.
#OnecountryBritain

You've got to stop this mouldy, you and your ilk are destroying Great Britain and the United Kingdom, just because you're unable to swallow your pride, not good

 

[Seaview Seagull]

Genuine question from someone who isn't there: Is there any genuine appetite for another referendum? I know this was mooted before the breakaway actually happened (but was thwarted by the quality argument of 'we won, you lost, get over it. You can't just vote again in a democracy - where on earth would you find a precedent for this?). Now with a chance to reflect and take a look at what Brexit has caused (or alternatively dive so deep into cognitive dissonance one can't remember their own name) is there a movement to try and reverse some of the damage caused?

Or alternatively are the younger generations just waiting for the numbers of boomers to drop off before trying again?
[MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION], I would be interested in your insights on this too. Are you lot sticking to the 'none of this shit has been affected by Brexit, we won, get over it' (look the unions!!). Or are brexiteers ready to engage in some discussion on how to short some of this shit out.[/QUOTE

This is where I am. I voted remain we lost so we came out. Johnson got the easy part of Brexit done but then as much else his govt was less than competent in working on the results. So we have the protocol, the queues at dover and mountains of extra paperwork for exporters. All easily foreseeable by a more competent administration focused on delivery not avoiding answers to questions about truth and integrity.

But of course it's always someone else's fault so now the French are to blame! A competent govt focused on delivering solutions would have anticipated the problems and worked with the EU to alleviate them instead of throwing bricks at them.

You will gather I am not a conservative but all of us I think would wish for at least basic competence in a govt of any colour.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Quite funny how there’s no ‘Chaos at Heathrow’ where for months queues at immigration at T3 and T5 have snaked round the arrival terminal for miles. Trip back from Munich last month took 50minutes to get through. Maybe need to get our own house in order before shouting at others ?

Gov are successfully managing to push the blame all on the airport here, they dont need to do anything.

 

[Springal]

Gov are successfully managing to push the blame all on the airport here, they dont need to do anything.

Surely no one believes lack of border force agents on duty is the airports fault ?

 

[BadFish]

This is where I am. I voted remain we lost so we came out. Johnson got the easy part of Brexit done but then as much else his govt was less than competent in working on the results. So we have the protocol, the queues at dover and mountains of extra paperwork for exporters. All easily foreseeable by a more competent administration focused on delivery not avoiding answers to questions about truth and integrity.

But of course it's always someone else's fault so now the French are to blame! A competent govt focused on delivering solutions would have anticipated the problems and worked with the EU to alleviate them instead of throwing bricks at them.

You will gather I am not a conservative but all of us I think would wish for at least basic competence in a govt of any colour.

I know that the arguments have been done to death but it seems to me (someone without a dog in the race) that the EU was never your problem. The problem was, and continues to be a series of governments who do not represent the people who vote for them. All the time you have Tory governments in things are not going to improve and they will continue to find scapegoats to blame. I suppose eventually if you stay out of the EU they will begin to blame them less (whilst of course failing to fund services for the electorate).

The major difference now seems to be that these governments are now able to go about their business without the checks and balances of the EU. This to me should be something that is more concerning to people.

I admit my anti-Tory bias and continue to wait for them to show that they are a party that can be trusted. Like you I don't care much for the colour of the rosette and would just like to see a competent, compassionate and trustworthy government capable of solving the country's problems in or out of the EU.

 

[Randy McNob]

Genuine question from someone who isn't there: Is there any genuine appetite for another referendum? I know this was mooted before the breakaway actually happened (but was thwarted by the quality argument of 'we won, you lost, get over it. You can't just vote again in a democracy - where on earth would you find a precedent for this?). Now with a chance to reflect and take a look at what Brexit has caused (or alternatively dive so deep into cognitive dissonance one can't remember their own name) is there a movement to try and reverse some of the damage caused?

Or alternatively are the younger generations just waiting for the numbers of boomers to drop off before trying again?
[MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION], I would be interested in your insights on this too. Are you lot sticking to the 'none of this shit has been affected by Brexit, we won, get over it' (look the unions!!). Or are brexiteers ready to engage in some discussion on how to short some of this shit out.

There's no need for another referendum. This is what'll happen: if we get political change in 2024, we will rejoin the single market and customs union, plus we will repeal the ending of freedom of movement and it will be re-instated. Problem solved

We can do all that as EU non members, like Switzerland. It will upset the Brexit idealogues, but idealogues don't care about economic harm or people waiting for days in borders queues so why should their opinions count?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Surely no one believes lack of border force agents on duty is the airports fault ?

Among the other Gov caused issues, I believe a lot of people do think its completely down to the Airports/Airlines.

 

[Eric the meek]

Staff at Dover have said that the French offered last winter to add additional staff this side of the channel to help speed things up around visa processing before we got to the summer chaos, trying to help us out and pre-empt exactly this trouble, but the government refused the £33 million they'd have to part fund it to add the extra lanes and booths. What we're seeing is the consequence of Government intransigence and of course the consequence of being a country where the majority chose to end easy travel. Zero surprise the French get the blame because when something is ideologically driven not pragmatically or logically driven it's literally impossible to admit responsibility. Don't forget too, it's only making major headlines now because it's holiday makers. There have been regular 20+ mile queues of lorries for months.

Well said.

Now to Natalie Elphicke, Conservative MP for Dover. She is a Brexiteer and blames the current chaos for holidaymakers on lack of French border staff.

But what about the months of 20+ mile lorry queues? This has been flagged up for years on local television in her own constituency.

Whatever she believes the cause is, has she raised it in Parliament? Has it been addressed? The fact that it is still going on, suggests the answers are 'no' and 'no'.

What damage to our exporters, or level of chaos for holidaymakers, does there need to be before the most impenetrable Brexiteer minds are capable of countenancing the possibility that this isn't going all that well?

 

[BadFish]

There's no need for another referendum. This is what'll happen: if we get political change in 2024, we will rejoin the single market and customs union, plus we will repeal the ending of freedom of movement and it will be re-instated. Problem solved

We can do all that as EU non members, like Switzerland. It will upset the Brexit idealogues, but idealogues don't care about economic harm or people waiting for days in borders queues so why should their opinions count?

Sounds like a simple and effective step for solving the main problems. Disappointing that Boris did secure these things on the way out. Is this something that the Labour party have promised?

The Brexit ideologies are fairly disparate from what I can work out. I wonder how many who voted to leave, did so with the idea that some or all of these things would be off the table. I seem to remember at one point the single market not being presented as part of what you were leaving.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Surely no one believes lack of border force agents on duty is the airports fault ?

I saw precisely that argument yesterday.

 

[beorhthelm]

friends have texted this morning they set out at 6 for a 12pm ferry expecting long delay. no queues, bumped to an earlier ferry and already in France.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sounds like a simple and effective step for solving the main problems. Disappointing that Boris did secure these things on the way out. Is this something that the Labour party have promised?

The Brexit ideologies are fairly disparate from what I can work out. I wonder how many who voted to leave, did so with the idea that some or all of these things would be off the table. I seem to remember at one point the single market not being presented as part of what you were leaving.

There were statements from politicians which stated Nobody is talking about leaving the Single Market, which were lies. When people voted, there were lots of misleading comments and lies.

To answer a question you asked previously, there is a European Movement in this country. Several politicians such as John Major, Michael Heseltine, Alastair Campbell, Caroline Lucas, etc run it. I get emails from them regularly.
The LibDems are pro Europe, and the Green Party plus the SNP.

 

[BadFish]

A couple of interesting opinion polls here. They suggest that the majority people are not happy with the results and effects of Brexit.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...a-positive-or-negative-impact-on-the-country/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...n-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...pean-union-or-stay-out-of-the-european-union/

One thing is for sure, the whole thing has been handled appallingly from start to finish.

 

[zefarelly]

Dunno what all the fuss is about going to France, anyway:-


[tweet]1550899795585368065[/tweet]



The place is minging.

The heathens witl be relaxing and enjoying a day of R&R with fine food and wine today.
While we clog up our roads going shopping for chinese tat then eat Americanised plastic.