[Politics] Brexit

[The Birdman]

I thought I recognised the guy on the right

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Sadly Imp is itching for Brexit to fail along with Hamster and a few others. Now is the time to pull together to make the best of what we have and not continually undermine everything

I'm not itching for Brexit to fail at all and anyway I doubt it will come down to anything as simple or measurable as fail or succeed. I am concerned that a meaner spirit is prevailing and I worry that my children and grandchildren will have smaller lives but I understand that you disagree entirely. After all, the vision of Britain put forward by those El Presidente just listed, by Arron Banks and Nigel Farage, by Paul Dacre and others appeals greatly to many people, as we have just found out.

It isn't possible for everyone to 'pull together' until the direction we're going in is established. The hard-Brexiters are arguing for a particular way forward and have essentially said that they will scream and scream and scream until they get it. People who happen to feel they are lunatics will need to say so. I hope the do.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If the government could produce quick zero tariffs with all other countries then I'd be cautiously optimistic. My concern is that there's an overriding assumption that other countries want free trade with the UK, when there's limited evidence to support that.

In terms of exports, the main UK ones are service based in nature. Demand for these from emerging markets is limited at best.

Trump is a protectionist by nature, Clinton is now backtracking on TTIP, so the US is unlikely to go full steam ahead on free trade deal. China is a manufacturing exporter who steals intellectual property, India is almost impossible to deal with as so bureaucratic in nature.

Of the EU countries, Germany and the RoI are substantial exporters to the UK, so would be keen on free trade, but the other 26 countries are more indifferent, so it is going to be a tricky negotiation to pull off.............and that's once 'we' (presumably May, Fox, Hammond, Davis and Johnson) decide what 'we' want, and even amongst those five there seems to be significant differences of opinion.

I agree that in terms of trade agreement with the EU there are substantial differences in the volume of business done with different nations and if unanimity is required then on the face of it agreement could be difficult. However we have seen on many issues that the EU is not a union of equals but rather a project driven economically by Germany (and to a lesser extent France) with political support from the smaller Northern European nations. If something is in the interests of Germany then that could be said to be in the interest of the EU. In any case tariffs are not large compared to exhange rate fluctuations between sterling and the Euro (even before the referendum!)
For the rest of the world, trade agreements will have to be developed as and when it is in our and other countries mutual interest. Given the poor record of the EU in concluding such deals it is at the very least debatable whether we are better off in or out when trying to negotiate such deals. I think the point I am trying to make is that failure to conclude a deal with the EU is less important (even when taking into account trade volumes) than the rest of the world because tariff levels are so different. Non EU trade is becoming increasingly important.

 

[Soulman]

I

The hard-Brexiters are arguing for a particular way forward and have essentially said that they will scream and scream and scream until they get it. People who happen to feel they are lunatics will need to say so. I hope the do.

Really, who is doing the "screaming" on here. So there are 17m "lunatics" around then......hmmm.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Really, who is doing the "screaming" on here. So there are 17m "lunatics" around then......hmmm.

Really, I'm going to let rip a little. Are you absolutely stupid or are you on some sort of wind-up? Mine was a gentle post, respectful of someone who disagreed with me. Nowhere did I say that everyone who voted leave was a lunatic. You just invented that. People voted leave for various reasons and I listed some of the people Leave voters support. However. Some people are calling for a very hard line and others think that they are crazy. I happen to agree with that view - your claim that I am screaming that 17m people are lunatics is absurd.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Really, I'm going to let rip a little. Are you absolutely stupid or are you on some sort of wind-up? Mine was a gentle post, respectful of someone who disagreed with me. Nowhere did I say that everyone who voted leave was a lunatic. You just invented that. People voted leave for various reasons and I listed some of the people Leave voters support. However. Some people are calling for a very hard line and others think that they are crazy. I happen to agree with that view - your claim that I am screaming that 17m people are lunatics is absurd.

Bit of a flounce there?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Bit of a flounce there?

Yep. Get a bit tired of people deliberately misreading posts sometimes.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting statement from May today. There will initially be a bill which will enshrine all EU law into UK law which in turn will allow the UK to keep or scrap each law. There are hundreds of laws and this will take years, if not decades, to get through parliament. Baffling.

 

[studio150]

Really, who is doing the "screaming" on here. So there are 17m "lunatics" around then......hmmm.

So not content with saying what you have written actually means something completely different, you are now reading something into a post which just isn't there. Where does the post state there are 17m lunatics, you clearly have powers that are above us mere mortals, so please enlighten us, so we too can see where the 17m is stated.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Interesting statement from May today. There will initially be a bill which will enshrine all EU law into UK law which in turn will allow the UK to keep or scrap each law. There are hundreds of laws and this will take years, if not decades, to get through parliament. Baffling.

I wouldn't have thought it was a problem. Indeed it seems very sensible to me. Only get rid, on an ad hoc basis, of the EU laws which seem to be out of step with our own needs. This approach has been mooted for a while now and will be far less hassle than examining every law which has superceded English law.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wouldn't have thought it was a problem. Indeed it seems very sensible to me. Only get rid, on an ad hoc basis, of the EU laws which seem to be out of step with our own needs. This approach has been mooted for a while now and will be far less hassle than examining every law which has superceded English law.

My point is that it will take years/decades to get all the separate laws the government don't want through parliament.

 

[ManOfSussex]

My point is that it will take years/decades to get all the separate laws the government don't want through parliament.

Only if they don't want them and if in the future they're deemed to be out of step with our own needs as [MENTION=4573]Green Cross Code Man[/MENTION] says.

India did pretty much the same in the 1940's, and it makes sense to me too.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Only if they don't want them and if in the future they're deemed to be out of step with our own needs as [MENTION=4573]Green Cross Code Man[/MENTION] says.

India did pretty much the same in the 1940's, and it makes sense to me too.

Exactly this, all part of taking back control. Priority is delivering a good Brexit deal followed by removing unwanted EU based laws/regulations in the medium/long term. Eminently sensible.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly this, all part of taking back control. Priority is delivering a good Brexit deal followed by removing unwanted EU based laws/regulations in the medium/long term. Eminently sensible.

I guess it's a good thing that any laws which the government want to bin have to pass through parliament but it strikes me as a very very time consuming exercise.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I guess it's a good thing that any laws which the government want to bin have to pass through parliament but it strikes me as a very very time consuming exercise.

At a guess, I would say the vast majority of these EU laws will probably remain. As [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] says though, and even I can see this a 'remain' voter, this is a sensible move and means the focus, as it will need to be, is on the Brexit deal and others, rather than clogging up parliament for the next x years debating every EU law on the statute book.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes I agree with the May plan as well. Enshrine the legal status quo into British law and then parliamentary democracy will determine which are kept and which repealed. There are many positive EU laws which have been enacted purely because they have had the responsibility rather than our parliament. This process is the whole point of the sovereignty part of the reasoning for leaving the EU.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yes I agree with the May plan as well. Enshrine the legal status quo into British law and then parliamentary democracy will determine which are kept and which repealed. There are many positive EU laws which have been enacted purely because they have had the responsibility rather than our parliament. This process is the whole point of the sovereignty part of the reasoning for leaving the EU.

Exactly this.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I guess it's a good thing that any laws which the government want to bin have to pass through parliament but it strikes me as a very very time consuming exercise.

After waiting decades to regain these powers I don't begrudge a few extra years in making proper use of our democratic institutions to make the best possible decisions.

It's still early days but PM May seems more traditional in her style of government, more cabinet/parliament less sofa/Etonian cliques.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So not content with saying what you have written actually means something completely different, you are now reading something into a post which just isn't there. Where does the post state there are 17m lunatics, you clearly have powers that are above us mere mortals, so please enlighten us, so we too can see where the 17m is stated.

This is just a polite suggestion but perhaps it would be better to just focus on the debate. When people on all sides start point scoring then the thread loses focus.

 

[Two Professors]

Interesting statement from May today. There will initially be a bill which will enshrine all EU law into UK law which in turn will allow the UK to keep or scrap each law. There are hundreds of laws and this will take years, if not decades, to get through parliament. Baffling.

Well I expect we will follow the French,German,Belgian etc. example and ignore the laws we can't be arsed with.European courts can't do anything to us once we're out