[Politics] Brexit

[GoldWithFalmer]

Absorbing 3 or 4 thousand war-shattered families shouldn't overstretch a country of 65 million people. If most British people think this is too many then I really do despair.

It was 57 million only last week..... well it was before Labour opened the flood gates.............but it has risen a lot in 20 years,that's the population of several Manchester's...

Perhaps the UK could stay of of Syria and such places,the civil war would have been finished by now,the great powers of the world and their proxy wars are to blame,still that's for another day.....up in 6 hours...

 

[pastafarian]

Absorbing 3 or 4 thousand war-shattered families shouldn't overstretch a country of 65 million people. If most British people think this is too many then I really do despair.

I don't really want to go back to the subject of violence against Remain supporters because, as I said, we shouldn't make too much of the actions of a minority. But as you mention it, yes, there has clearly been a rise - I haven't done a great Google search but attention at the time was caught by the fact that the police across south Yorkshire advised Remain supporters not to campaign because they couldn't guarantee their safety. The murder of an MP happened the day after she campaigned for Remain. There has also been a well-charted rise in violence against immigrants. I do find it difficult to accept that the relentless day-after-day vilifying of migrants by horrendous tabloid newspapers hasn't helped create the climate in which such things are more likely.

Cant say i was aware of any levels of violence against people because they were remain supporters before the vote and cant say i was aware this had risen against remain voters since the vote.

I thought it was quite a relief we hadnt turned to knocking the crap out of each other on the streets like the Jocks had done in theirs.

 

[pastafarian]

Absorbing 3 or 4 thousand war-shattered families shouldn't overstretch a country of 65 million people. If most British people think this is too many then I really do despair.

it probably wouldnt overstretch if the number was only ever going to be 3 or 4 thousand.
But it isnt only ever going to be that number

 

[Soulman]

Absorbing 3 or 4 thousand war-shattered families shouldn't overstretch a country of 65 million people. If most British people think this is too many then I really do despair.
.

I and i suspect many others with my views, have no problem with 3 or 4 thousand, as long as it is not on top of the massive figures we let in last year.
Surely we can cut down the amount of immigration to a sensible level and MAKE sure that those in need such as genuine refugees are let in among the sensible numbers.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It does indeed, thank you.

On the first two points, I think you are right to point out how wary I am when it comes to our own government. We have an un-elected upper chamber, and a lower chamber elected using a system that means outrageous policies can be implemented by a government with minority electorate support. I feel the PR-elected MEPs offer a degree of counter balance to this. Our democracy worries me. Regardless, I'd be interested to know how you arrive at this idea that 95% of UK companies will no longer have to comply with EU directives. This suggests that all 100% already do have to comply to them, when the truth is that a substantial number of firms are probably untouched by EU directives. And regardless, any UK firm exporting to the EU WILL still have to comply with these directives, only they will no longer have a voice on how these directives are made.

You last point I fundamentally disagree with. Economically, I'd agree the EU promotes increased homogeny, but I don't see how that erodes our cultural identity whatsoever. Seriously, how does your "Britishness" vary according to EU laws on agriculture or tariffs on imported goods from China?

I share your wariness and concerns about our democracy but come the end of the day we the UK public get the chance to vote out our incompetent politicians/government. Our MEP's are from the very same parties pushing the same agendas and are of course just a very, very small minority in the european parliament with limited powers (see link) so I have no idea how our MEP's counterbalance any supposed failings of our system. Have you got an example?

http://forbritain.org/MEPs votes.pdf

The possibly up to 95% figure was mentioned in the link I provided in my previous post, sorry for not making this clearer. Yes we have already agreed the small minority of companies who want to access the single market in the future will have to comply with EU standards as all exporters usually do with their target market. Plus of course companies within the EU exporting here will have to comply with our standards.

If only the EU was just a trade/economic focused block then we wouldn't have needed a referendum but it is obviously much more than that. It is an ever expanding political entity hungrily absorbing powers and lawmaking primacy from nation states. It has a flag, anthem, currency (oops) it's spends plenty of Euros promoting itself in numerous creative ways also I have heard quite a few remainers (including on NSC) say they feel more European than British. Which I would suggest is at least partly down to the influence of the EU. Also some areas of our country have undergone significant change re largescale EU immigration which some could reasonably argue has an impact on feelings of identity.

 

[Baldseagull]

I and i suspect many others with my views, have no problem with 3 or 4 thousand, as long as it is not on top of the massive figures we let in last year.
Surely we can cut down the amount of immigration to a sensible level and MAKE sure that those in need such as genuine refugees are let in among the sensible numbers.

Mr Farage stated that an ability to turn away EU citizens would allow us to take in more people from elsewhere, then has a poster made showing Syrian refugees and the words Breaking Point. I recall him saying we could have more people from India and the rest of the commonwealth, without mentioning Pakistan, Bangladesh or Nigeria.
He played up to Islamaphobia without ever saying that we would get less Muslim immigration, securing the votes of Islamaphobes, even though they are likely to see more Muslim migration to the UK if we control EU migration.
I had a discussion with someone at the weekend, they said they don't mind all the Poles, it is the Muslims, and that is why they voted leave, the power of a poster and suggestions that Turkey would soon have EU status trumps logic, she still would not have it that she is likely to see the opposite, less Polish, more Muslims.

 

[Baldseagull]

I share your wariness and concerns about our democracy but come the end of the day we the UK public get the chance to vote out our incompetent politicians/government. Our MEP's are from the very same parties pushing the same agendas and are of course just a very, very small minority in the european parliament with limited powers (see link) so I have no idea how our MEP's counterbalance any supposed failings of our system. Have you got an example?

http://forbritain.org/MEPs votes.pdf

The possibly up to 95% figure was mentioned in the link I provided in my previous post, sorry for not making this clearer. Yes we have already agreed the small minority of companies who want to access the single market in the future will have to comply with EU standards as all exporters usually do with their target market. Plus of course companies within the EU exporting here will have to comply with our standards.

If only the EU was just a trade/economic focused block then we wouldn't have needed a referendum but it is obviously much more than that. It is an ever expanding political entity hungrily absorbing powers and lawmaking primacy from nation states. It has a flag, anthem, currency (oops) it's spends plenty of Euros promoting itself in numerous creative ways also I have heard quite a few remainers (including on NSC) say they feel more European than British. Which I would suggest is at least partly down to the influence of the EU. Also some areas of our country have undergone significant change re largescale EU immigration which some could reasonably argue has an impact on feelings of identity.

There are a few assumptions you and your link have made that are wrong.
Firstly, the author in your link assumes that because British MEP's voted against something, that something is not in Britains interests. Mr Farage and his band of UKIP MEP's have opposed a lot more policies than the Liberals have, unsurprisingly.
Secondly, the counter balance does not come from having our MEP's there, it comes from having everybodys MEP there, and a body that sets an agenda that is not concerned with individual nations self interests, but for what is best for all member nations. This means that we have had to adopt some policies in areas such as employment rights, and the environment that are beneficial for us, but our Government was opposed to.
Each Nation of the EU still has to find ways to be competitive, but the EU prevents them cutting corners on the environment and workers rights to some extent.
We may get some loss of identity as Brits, as a by product of trying to create greater equality throughout Europe, a bit like we all feel a bit less manly now than we did in the seventies on account of women having greater equality, we are still men though, even if the little lady does earn as much as I do and can top up the oil in the car. We will still be Brits when our favourite footballers are Spanish, our favourite beverage is German, and our President is French

 

[Deleted member 22389]

They just can't let it go can they. About time people got a life and moved on. The vote was to Leave when will people understand.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ers-to-hijack-last-night-of-the-proms-with-e/

 

[Soulman]

They just can't let it go can they. About time people got a life and moved on. The vote was to Leave when will people understand.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ers-to-hijack-last-night-of-the-proms-with-e/

They won't understand because much as they bang on about democracy they want their own way.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

They won't understand because much as they bang on about democracy they want their own way.

Doing my head in. No they don't understand democracy.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Isn't the right to protest one of the building blocks of democracy?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Isn't the right to protest one of the building blocks of democracy?

Generally people accept the wishes of the people. It seems a lot of remainers don't.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Generally people accept the wishes of the people. It seems a lot of remainers don't.

And your answer to a very simple question is?

The Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid Cymru (sp) are still putting forth their opinions since the last general election, or should all debate be stifled there too?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Isn't the right to protest one of the building blocks of democracy?

We lost against Newscastle, can we ask for re-match and will we get one?

 

[Spicy]

We lost against Newscastle, can we ask for re-match and will we get one?

Well I think we should as the result wasn't democratically right.

I am an out voter by the way and agree that the remainers should just accept the result and shaddup!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And your answer to a very simple question is?

The Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid Cymru (sp) are still putting forth their opinions since the last general election, or should all debate be stifled there too?

Are the liberals and labour and plaid contesting the result and seeking a re-run. No, I thought not.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Some people are peacefully protesting about wanting to stay in The EU. Some people are peacefully protesting about wanting Article 50 invoked now. Each to their own, but I thought the right to protest was a cornerstone of our democracy, even if you don't share the same view as the protesters?

 

[studio150]

They won't understand because much as they bang on about democracy they want their own way.

The standard leave comment we won now just stop raising concerns on legitimate issues and just say everything is rosy.
You as many leavers are prone to do refuse to accept that we still do not know what Brexit will look like and are still unable to say what it will look like.
What next censorship banning any comment which dares to suggest we will be worse off for some length of time or not accepting everything is rosy and wonderful because we've got our country back.
Still heaven forbid remainers actually suggest a view from a leaber is factually wrong.

 

[studio150]

Some people are peacefully protesting about wanting to stay in The EU. Some people are peacefully protesting about wanting Article 50 invoked now. Each to their own, but I thought the right to protest was a cornerstone of our democracy, even if you don't share the same view as the protesters.

Not allowed in the leave democratic world as it isnt the same view of the leavers. Brexit is Brexit dont you know.

 

[nicko31]

They just can't let it go can they. About time people got a life and moved on. The vote was to Leave when will people understand.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ers-to-hijack-last-night-of-the-proms-with-e/

Its a pretty embarassing spectacle anything, a few EU flags won't do it any harm. In fact bring along a few UKIP ones too, why not..