[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

Case rests M'lud

You couldn’t make it up.

 

[Chicken Run]

Yes, I noticed that as well.

Leave voting poster makes a factually incorrect statement.
I point out very politely that the statement it is factually incorrect.
Leave voter posts insults and rants in response, and gets the thread sent to the Bear Pit.

Happens every time. I can't imagine why

I even praised you as an exception to this earlier in the thread. How you have have recognised that it will definitely be bad for us economically and no one has any idea how bad. But you are happy to take this completely unknown hit on the UK as, to you, it's really a matter of principle. (Unless, of course, there's a parmesan crust involved )

I think it all started going wrong on post #42 wouldn’t you say[emoji6]

 

[Billy the Fish]

It's funny, because many Leave voters complain about how it has evolved to what it is, and fear that it is heading towards becoming a full Federal government, whilst also, like you, saying it will never change.

That's not true, you've just used the biggest gun in the remainer's arsenal: projecting a falsehood onto leave voters.

We're not saying it'll never change at all, it's the path towards a federal Europe that will never change.

It's changing, but not for the better. More power, more regulation. Your argument for more power reminds me of the American gun lobby who say the answer to gun crime is more guns!

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think it all started going wrong on post #42 wouldn’t you say[emoji6]

Apparently, according to Post #28 it had gone wrong long before then

 

[Randy McNob]

If Remain had won how would the remain side have satisfied Leavers and made a version of remaining members of the EU that satisfied EVERYONE including those that didn’t want to be members at all?

Easy. If remain won the referendum 52 / 48 it would give strength to the further debate about our relationship with Europe and the possibility of a 2nd vote in future plus it would put pressure on government to seek to reform the EU. Ukip would still exist so leavers would still have a voice. A far better outcome than where we are now.

My views on nationalism is based on all brexiter opinion from radio talk shows and social media and The people that led the debate like Farage with populism and nationalistic tropes, and there was the famous breaking point poster, xenophobia thrown in for good measure. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but it was at the forefront of the debate and enough to sway the vote one way

 

[Chicken Run]

Apparently, according to Post #28 it had gone wrong long before then

To get FULL snake pit accreditation it needs your sign off which was completed on post #42.

[emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6][emoji6]

 

[vegster]

We are all really stuck with the old chestnut at the heart of all this, reality.

Vote Leave made huge undeliverable promises on the cash and political benefits of leaving the EU. At that point in time many people just accepted their truth over "Remain.... We have too much to lose by leaving"... Vote Leave ran a better campaign than Remain's and more people were pulled in.

However, when it came down to hard facts all the " Benefits" of leaving vanished one by one in the face of reality. Many MP's saw this coming and realised we would all be worse off and desperately tried to change course, as each " Deal" was presented to the House of Commons and voted out. Only the relentless shapeshifters like Gove, Raab and Johnson can swallow their lies and keep paddling towards the waterfall. And that's where we are now, all of the " Benefits" gone and worse times ahead....

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Yes, I noticed that as well.

Leave voting poster makes a factually correct statement.
I jump in two-footed as the leave poster constantly owns my sad arse making a bigger tit of myself
Thread gets sent to the Bear Pit.

I refuse to accept culpability Happens every time. I can't imagine why

)

Corrected for accuracy

 

[WATFORD zero]

Corrected for accuracy

With your history of editing my posts and then quoting them, it's hardly a surprise.

Well, as I'm a complete t**t unable to put together any type of justification for Brexit, what did you expect ?

It makes Ppf's responses look positively mature

 

[WATFORD zero]

Trying to get back to the subject (if the children will let us)

There are still the same two major issues as there were 4.5 years ago

What is going to happen about the Ireland/NI border ?
Why would the EU allow us tariff free access to all their huge markets with no control to stop our companies undercutting their companies by changing 'our' rules on Government subsidies, Animal welfare, Safety, Worker welfare, additives, preservatives etc etc ?

And, yes there's the fishing industry, a smaller part of the UK economy than Harrod's, which sells the vast majority of what it catches into the EU market.


Very simple question. Anyone have an solution ? (And before anyone says 'better negotiators' what is the end game they should be negotiating to ?)

 

[Is it PotG?]

And whatever else gets posted, there are still the same two major issues as there were 4.5 years ago

What is going to happen about the Ireland/NI border ?
Why would the EU allow us tariff free access to all their markets with no control to stop us undercutting their companies on Government subsidies, Animal welfare, Safety, Worker welfare, additives, preservatives etc etc ?

Very simple question. Anyone have a solution ?

On. Our. Way.

 

[Chicken Run]

Trying to get back to the subject (if the children will let us)

There are still the same two major issues as there were 4.5 years ago

What is going to happen about the Ireland/NI border ?
Why would the EU allow us tariff free access to all their huge markets with no control to stop our companies undercutting their companies by changing 'our' rules on Government subsidies, Animal welfare, Safety, Worker welfare, additives, preservatives etc etc ?

And, yes there's the fishing industry, a smaller part of the UK economy than Harrod's, which sells the vast majority of what it catches into the EU market.


Very simple question. Anyone have an solution ? (And before anyone says 'better negotiators' what is the end game they should be negotiating to ?)

Nice edit btw,

I’d be interested to know your solution?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nice edit btw,

I’d be interested to know your solution?

I don't have one and never have.

In all seriousness, I don't believe there ever was one. That's why there is still no solution 4.5 years down the line.

If we leave with 'no deal' it will address the tariff free access to the EU market and fishing (at a very significant cost), but we are still stuck with the Ireland/NI one. I'm sorry and I'm really not having a pop, but in my opinion, this has been the case from the very beginning.

Do you have any ideas ? (let's face it, between us we can't do any worse than what's being done )

 

[Hampster Gull]

We are all really stuck with the old chestnut at the heart of all this, reality.

Vote Leave made huge undeliverable promises on the cash and political benefits of leaving the EU. At that point in time many people just accepted their truth over "Remain.... We have too much to lose by leaving"... Vote Leave ran a better campaign than Remain's and more people were pulled in.

However, when it came down to hard facts all the " Benefits" of leaving vanished one by one in the face of reality. Many MP's saw this coming and realised we would all be worse off and desperately tried to change course, as each " Deal" was presented to the House of Commons and voted out. Only the relentless shapeshifters like Gove, Raab and Johnson can swallow their lies and keep paddling towards the waterfall. And that's where we are now, all of the " Benefits" gone and worse times ahead....

Indeed, there are very few Brexenefits. The populists have been kicked out in the States, but we are stuck with a Trump like exit for rather longer. Still, the backlash is starting

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nice edit btw,

I’d be interested to know your solution?

I think you might be best asking the vote leave fishermen themselves. Only last week they were bleating about the destruction of their industry and livelihoods when the possibility they will lose 80% or so of their market overnight was floated. They voted to leave, so it’s their mess to resolve. Let me know what they say, I’m interested.

 

[Randy McNob]

I don't have one and never have.

In all seriousness, I don't believe there ever was one. That's why there is still no solution 4.5 years down the line.

If we leave with 'no deal' it will address the tariff free access to the EU market and fishing (at a very significant cost), but we are still stuck with the Ireland/NI one. I'm sorry and I'm really not having a pop, but in my opinion, this has been the case from the very beginning.

Do you have any ideas ? (let's face it, between us we can't do any worse than what's being done )

It is curious that Brexiters are always adamant they knew exactly what they were voting for, they are not stupid, yet when you pose such a question, never an answer and have the temerity to ask you what we should do

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

It is curious that Brexiters are always adamant they knew exactly what they were voting for, they are not stupid, yet when you pose such a question, never an answer and have the temerity to ask you what we should do

It's the 'if they knew then what they know' conundrum that is rather depressing i.e. most would still have opted for Brexit . So much for the wisdom of hindsight even: is this really how they thought it would pan out?

 

[daveinplzen]

Their responses, here and other platforms suggests they realise its a cluster**** (of their making) but admitting that is too much for their thin skins.

 

[Baldseagull]

That's not true, you've just used the biggest gun in the remainer's arsenal: projecting a falsehood onto leave voters.

We're not saying it'll never change at all, it's the path towards a federal Europe that will never change.

It's changing, but not for the better. More power, more regulation. Your argument for more power reminds me of the American gun lobby who say the answer to gun crime is more guns!

Oh I agree it is set towards a full Federal State, what I am arguing is that the powers of that state are not yet decided and that we should be in it to ensure that it does not centralise powers it need not have, or try to get there without proper consent to do so. I say the debate on where the limits should be and what is beneficial to all for the EU to have control of is worth having, not that it should have all the powers of each nation state.
There must be some laws and regulations that you agree should be set at the widest possible level?

 

[Baldseagull]

Nice edit btw,

I’d be interested to know your solution?

Remain in the customs union, or A customs union. which is effectively the same thing but was the semantics TM used to get around it not being a Brexity solution.