[Politics] Brexit

[CHAPPERS]

Yesterday there was a very real chance Brexit could still be blocked, today .... not so much.

What kind of Brexit is it you're after again?

(ad finitum)

 

[A1X]

Just once? It's incredibly naive that you think those that believe in not being part of Europe will just stop doing so.

It's not a revolving door. Wake up.

As we've seen, getting out of Europe is apparently extremely difficult, however we will be closely aligned to Europe after we leave (much closer than, for example, many of the Balkan countries) and there won't be the geopolitical impediments to joining others see (such as we have in Ukraine). It may be that there needs to be a stepping stone of EFTA membership, but that won't be a major hurdle for the UK to clear and indeed it is likely to be welcomed by most businesses. All it would need are the right locks put in place in UK legislation and given the demographics EU membership in 10 years from now is not unimaginable. Even yesterday Remain parties outscored Leave parties (ironically on a 52:48 split), the sands of time are constantly moving and public opinion is only moving in one direction. If (or more likely when) Brexit turns into a shitshow that will merely accelerate the process.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It's taken three democratic results to secure what the majority voted for in 2016, I am sure no one can seriously challenge democratic legitimacy anymore. Time to move on .... let's get Brexit done.

Ah yes, forgot. The Conservative Party didn't like who the people voted for in 2015 so they asked them again. They didn't like who they they voted In 2017 either so they asked them again.

Finally, ground down and fed up, the people sort of gave The Right Answer and provided Boris and the Boys with the lobby fodder they wanted. Brilliant. Job done.

Amateur Tory spokesman demands everyone accepts the 2019 answer and never raises the subject again.

 

[nicko31]

As we've seen, getting out of Europe is apparently extremely difficult, however we will be closely aligned to Europe after we leave (much closer than, for example, many of the Balkan countries) and there won't be the geopolitical impediments to joining others see (such as we have in Ukraine). It may be that there needs to be a stepping stone of EFTA membership, but that won't be a major hurdle for the UK to clear and indeed it is likely to be welcomed by most businesses. All it would need are the right locks put in place in UK legislation and given the demographics EU membership in 10 years from now is not unimaginable. Even yesterday Remain parties outscored Leave parties (ironically on a 52:48 split), the sands of time are constantly moving and public opinion is only moving in one direction. If (or more likely when) Brexit turns into a shitshow that will merely accelerate the process.

It not impossible that our future relationship ends up just like the Brexiters lie before the referendum, following the rules with no say.

Whatever happens from here Britain's influence in world will be greatly diminished, but that has been our decision. Its a long way back now

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Ah yes, forgot. The Conservative Party didn't like who the people voted for in 2015 so they asked them again. They didn't like who they they voted In 2017 either so they asked them again.

Finally, ground down and fed up, the people sort of gave The Right Answer and provided Boris and the Boys with the lobby fodder they wanted. Brilliant. Job done.

Amateur Tory spokesman demands everyone accepts the 2019 answer and never raises the subject again.

A grim result for your lot ..... what went wrong?

 

[golddene]

Think this will lead to a soft Brexit now.

I'd like to think there is truth in your statement but I cannot reason how !
This result is a mandate for the Conservative government to go as hard as it wishes with no checks or balances possible from the tiny opposition benches, The Conservatives have " played a blinder" and the country has spoken in full agreement with their strategy and policies and whatever our Government decide they have the blessing of the majority of our electorate.

At my age now and with the opposition parties in total disarray ( I cannot count Labour as a single entity opposition anymore as IMHO they will not form a Government on their own in my lifetime ) the Conservatives can only lose power themselves and with the strategists, campaigners, and indeed morals* they have shown that is highly unlikely, *the electorate have endorsed bare faced lying as an acceptable strategy.

Being a remainer, I have felt since the 2016 referendum that I could not overtly support Corbyn after his showing during that campaign and the mass resignation of Labour MPs from his shadow cabinet should have been the end of him but somehow he survived and instead of his demise he has overseen the demise of a once honourable party.

As for this thread, it maybe should be consigned to the dustbin as the battle was won long ago. Congratulations.

 

[Blue3]

I think there's a lot who would argue with both of these points. With regard to Scotland the SNP only got 45% of the vote - does that translate to a demand for independence, anymore that the conservative's 45% does for Brexit?

It's our own little island version of democracy first past the post wins while the LibDems get a million more votes at this election compaired to 2016 yet they end up with one less seat in Parliment

For what's it's worth I am no great supporter of either our form of democracy or our outdated institutions and would be happy to see it all swept away for a proportional voting system to elect representatives to a brand new Parliment building outside of London and a fully elected second house we need to take back control from this gravy train that is the British political establishment

 

[Zamo25]

Is it now 2-0 to Brexit

So best of 5 surely for Democracy to be upheld.............

 

[Hastings gull]

It's our own little island version of democracy first past the post wins while the LibDems get a million more votes at this election compaired to 2016 yet they end up with one less seat in Parliment

For what's it's worth I am no great supporter of either our form of democracy or our outdated institutions and would be happy to see it all swept away for a proportional voting system to elect representatives to a brand new Parliment building outside of London and a fully elected second house we need to take back control from this gravy train that is the British political establishment

Ok, that is your view, but even with PR do you really think that the gravy train element will be replaced. It would surely be a different lot but still desperate to hang on to their large salaries and pay-outs.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

A grim result for your lot ..... what went wrong?

Too much to list. Revoke policy exposed the party to charges of being undemocratic - or alternatively to never actually believing it would win (in spite of Swinson's hubris-laden claims). A screechy leader incapable of debate.

In fairness though the binary campaign strategy chosen by Isaac Levido meant that there was room for one Light Entertainer, one bogey man and no one else.

 

[Lever]

Ok, that is your view, but even with PR do you really think that the gravy train element will be replaced. It would surely be a different lot but still desperate to hang on to their large salaries and pay-outs.

PR would certainly reflect more accurately the preferences of the population. It would do away with strategic voting and people might feel there is a point to voting. Since I returned to Mid Sussex in 1991 the tory candidate has always held a big majority and my vote has always been 'in vain'. I have no idea whether or not the 'gravy train' culture would take root again under a different system. We just need an electoral system that represents the diversity of opinion.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I'd like to think there is truth in your statement but I cannot reason how !
This result is a mandate for the Conservative government to go as hard as it wishes with no checks or balances possible from the tiny opposition benches, The Conservatives have " played a blinder" and the country has spoken in full agreement with their strategy and policies and whatever our Government decide they have the blessing of the majority of our electorate.

At my age now and with the opposition parties in total disarray ( I cannot count Labour as a single entity opposition anymore as IMHO they will not form a Government on their own in my lifetime ) the Conservatives can only lose power themselves and with the strategists, campaigners, and indeed morals* they have shown that is highly unlikely, *the electorate have endorsed bare faced lying as an acceptable strategy.

Being a remainer, I have felt since the 2016 referendum that I could not overtly support Corbyn after his showing during that campaign and the mass resignation of Labour MPs from his shadow cabinet should have been the end of him but somehow he survived and instead of his demise he has overseen the demise of a once honourable party.

As for this thread, it maybe should be consigned to the dustbin as the battle was won long ago. Congratulations.

couldn't have put it better myself....

 

[Wardy's twin]

Ok, that is your view, but even with PR do you really think that the gravy train element will be replaced. It would surely be a different lot but still desperate to hang on to their large salaries and pay-outs.

It's our own little island version of democracy first past the post wins while the LibDems get a million more votes at this election compaired to 2016 yet they end up with one less seat in Parliment

For what's it's worth I am no great supporter of either our form of democracy or our outdated institutions and would be happy to see it all swept away for a proportional voting system to elect representatives to a brand new Parliment building outside of London and a fully elected second house we need to take back control from this gravy train that is the British political establishment

Interesting about MPs and large salaries when a guy on question time doing a nothing job earns more than them....

You are correct tho the issue lies in the fact that some of our politicians are often not really focused on the people but the options it opens up. Maybe if politicians were reviewed each year based on what they delivered against target (as many people are) then they could be sacked or where they have criminally lied put in prison and taht should apply to all politicians of any persuasion.

 

[melias shoes]

A grim result for your lot ..... what went wrong?

The public grew furious with them for thwarting brexit. The minute they were given the chance to **** them off they did so with gusto. Happy days.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It's incredibly naive that you think those of us who believe in being part of Europe will just stop doing so. Remain just becomes Rejoin.

To keep us out, Brexiters will need to get luck every election. Rejoiners will only need to get lucky once.

bore off, we don't need your types any more, you've clearly been shown up for the waste of space you've become
onwards and upwards
regards
DF

 

[GT49er]

As we've seen, getting out of Europe is apparently extremely difficult, however we will be closely aligned to Europe after we leave (much closer than, for example, many of the Balkan countries) and there won't be the geopolitical impediments to joining others see (such as we have in Ukraine). It may be that there needs to be a stepping stone of EFTA membership, but that won't be a major hurdle for the UK to clear and indeed it is likely to be welcomed by most businesses. All it would need are the right locks put in place in UK legislation and given the demographics EU membership in 10 years from now is not unimaginable. Even yesterday Remain parties outscored Leave parties (ironically on a 52:48 split), the sands of time are constantly moving and public opinion is only moving in one direction. If (or more likely when) Brexit turns into a shitshow that will merely accelerate the process.

Have to admire your blind faith that the EU would let us back in! - and even if they did, they wouldn't let us have the same opt-outs that we had before we left.

 

[B-right-on]

It not impossible that our future relationship ends up just like the Brexiters lie before the referendum, following the rules with no say.

Whatever happens from here Britain's influence in world will be greatly diminished, but that has been our decision. Its a long way back now

I don't think that our influence will suffer, in fact I think it will grow because we will no longer be hanging under the apron of the EU and can stand on our own 2 feet as a country.

We have no real influence in the EU, it's all controlled by the Germans and French. Our power in the world is minimal in reality now, this can only improve imho.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The public grew furious with them for thwarting brexit. The minute they were given the chance to **** them off they did so with gusto.

Too right they did, but they were so smug about their own self importance to realise what was going to happen ,when you think about some of the smug crap they threw about it makes it all the better ,NO PLACE for flaky Libralism and far left extremists in the UK as of last night
regards
DF

 

[nicko31]

I don't think that our influence will suffer, in fact I think it will grow because we will no longer be hanging under the apron of the EU and can stand on our own 2 feet as a country.

We have no real influence in the EU, it's all controlled by the Germans and French. Our power in the world is minimal in reality now, this can only improve imho.

Euromyth 563, Daily Mail July 2004 - it's all controlled by the Germans and French

 

[WATFORD zero]

The public grew furious with them for thwarting brexit. The minute they were given the chance to **** them off they did so with gusto. Happy days.

Congratulations, you got what you wanted and I'm sure you are very happy

Now that you have Johnson as PM with a huge majority, Brexit should be very straightforward and simple. There really are no more excuses for not 'Getting Brexit Done'.

So when do you think we can actually stop paying all those millions into the EU and stop having to stick to all their rules and regulations ?