[Politics] Brexit

[hans kraay fan club]

I never said that but thanks anyway
Regards
DF

Care to explain then, why your immediate response to the sight of anti-Jewish graffiti, was to point out how wealthy the road in question is?

What was the relevance?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Of course the high octane 'blame game' will kick off soon and Johnson is already doing the groundwork:

1. Over-promising the likelihood of a deal (a 1 in a million chance that we won't get one)
2. Accepting the 30 day challenge to deliver and then doing nothing, thus making a deal much less likely
3. Bigging up stuff that 'we've done' whilst talking about the EU's intransigence
4. Promising hard core leavers that the deal will look nothing like the existing WA
5. Driving a wedge between himself and any Labour MPs who might have supported a deal
6. Generally 'playing to the ERG gallery'.
7. Running down the clock even to the extent of unlawfully shutting down Parliament
8. Generally being a knob

So you build up huge expectations in the safe knowledge you won't deliver them. You then switch the blame to

1. those bloody Europeans (who have already agreed a deal with Mrs May)
2. MPs who, by removing the no deal, made it 'impossible' to get the EU to agree a deal (He didn't want a deal; he has no idea of what a deal would look like; he has surrounded himself with acolytes who don't want a deal; he is incapable of getting a deal even if he wanted one)

I might be totally wrong on everything except point 8.

This then plays to his narratives of Boris v the EU and The People v, Parliament and an election winning strategy to put him in Downing Street for 5 years.




,

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

You didn't watch the Video, did you Lawro?

Most of the incitement lays at the door of your remainers, do you really back that behaviour

If Brexit does not happen this will not go away as the politicians have not fulfilled democracy.
Our country could be at war with one another on every street corner.

Does this not bother you?

Like I have said millions of times this has been coming for ages, you can't just change laws to suit the minority, and not follow up on what the result of the referendum, it will red mist even the calmest person.

Really? The video says that they are hypocrital whilst hypocritically insulting them.

Try critically assessing things that you read; think and stop believing everything that twitter account posts. Unless you have been brainwashed already.

.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Who do you blame though? Voters for diminishing the government's majority in 2017? The government for taking 3 years to realise it didn't have the numbers within it's own ranks to enact a Brexit they negotiated? The opposition for having 13m votes for a 'customs union' brexit that has been ignored as an option altogether by a government hell bent on it's own version that it's own LEAVE MPs wouldn't vote for?

Let's be clear the blame could be laid everywhere. Let us not forget, Boris, Rees-Mogg and their ilk voted AGAINST the deal their party had negotiated for 3 years.

The biggest obstruction to leaving has been those behind Leave. Instead of seeing it as a split vote so we leave, but accept half the country want to stay in the EU, so you leave but with close economic ties and alignment, they've seen it as a mandate to enact whatever they construed leave to mean.

Who you blaming Mouldy?

Voters for diminishing the government's majority in 2017? Partly to blame, if the government had a larger majority they wouldn't be reliant on the DUP and the ERG wouldn't have had such a big influence. Saying that the government ran such a p*ss poor campaign against a divided, incompetent opposition with a terrible leader so they are partly responsible.

The government for taking 3 years to realise it didn't have the numbers within it's own ranks to enact a Brexit they negotiated? Definitely true, they lost support within their own ranks because 'they' (see PM May) retreated from manifesto commitments/red lines ending up with a deal that was so bad it unified remainers and leavers.

The opposition for having 13m votes for a 'customs union' brexit that has been ignored as an option altogether by a government hell bent on it's own version that it's own LEAVE MPs wouldn't vote for? The opposition is partly to blame but not for the reasons you give. Firstly the opposition didn't get 13 m votes for just one particular policy as you well know, secondly, the Labour Brexit position was hardly clear and a bit unicorny, thirdly parliament in its infinite wisdom voted against a customs union option in the indicative votes.

The biggest obstruction to leaving has been those behind Leave. Instead of seeing it as a split vote so we leave, but accept half the country want to stay in the EU, so you leave but with close economic ties and alignment, they've seen it as a mandate to enact whatever they construed leave to mean.

The biggest obstruction has been an incompetent political class from all sides who can only decide what they are against not what they are for. If Corbyn received 52% vote share, won an election and the Tories received 48% how many Labour policies would you support being dumped in the name of unity/representing the minority view?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So our negotiating position is 'we won't leave without a deal, but we need to leave, so please give us a deal that's not too bad'?

Surely that has zero chance of success.

Parliament in its infinite wisdom has decided that must be our negotiating position

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Apparently Boris is going to produce the EU with the offer after the conference.

So is this an offer that he knows won’t be popular with his own party?

Boarder in the Irish Sea?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I am so fed up with remainer MPs being blamed for our current state when the simple fact is that a Brexit with the UK staying within a customs union as promised by leave campaigning Michael Gove before the referendum would have seen us leave the EU within 6 months of A50 revocation.

All the remainer MPs have since been guilty of is preventing a no deal Brexit. You can blame Brexiteer MPs for voting against May's deal (three times!) and then for trying to ram a no deal Brexit through the commons unlawfully.


Regardless of these uncomfortable facts, Mouldy - like most Brexiteers - will choose to blame "remoaners" exclusively, I can absolutely guarantee it. Frankly it says more about his own views on democracy and his own lack of intellect than anything else.

Give of course said - no one voted to leave without a deal in March as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-02...-written-in-the-sands-can-be-seen-from-space/

 

[Bold Seagull]

Voters for diminishing the government's majority in 2017? Partly to blame, if the government had a larger majority they wouldn't be reliant on the DUP and the ERG wouldn't have had such a big influence. Saying that the government ran such a p*ss poor campaign against a divided, incompetent opposition with a terrible leader so they are partly responsible.

The government for taking 3 years to realise it didn't have the numbers within it's own ranks to enact a Brexit they negotiated? Definitely true, they lost support within their own ranks because 'they' (see PM May) retreated from manifesto commitments/red lines ending up with a deal that was so bad it unified remainers and leavers.

The opposition for having 13m votes for a 'customs union' brexit that has been ignored as an option altogether by a government hell bent on it's own version that it's own LEAVE MPs wouldn't vote for? The opposition is partly to blame but not for the reasons you give. Firstly the opposition didn't get 13 m votes for just one particular policy as you well know, secondly, the Labour Brexit position was hardly clear and a bit unicorny, thirdly parliament in its infinite wisdom voted against a customs union option in the indicative votes.

The biggest obstruction to leaving has been those behind Leave. Instead of seeing it as a split vote so we leave, but accept half the country want to stay in the EU, so you leave but with close economic ties and alignment, they've seen it as a mandate to enact whatever they construed leave to mean.

The biggest obstruction has been an incompetent political class from all sides who can only decide what they are against not what they are for. If Corbyn received 52% vote share, won an election and the Tories received 48% how many Labour policies would you support being dumped in the name of unity/representing the minority view?

In terms of the indicative votes, the Tories decided to vote against pretty much everything other than May's deal, which a sizeable number of them also voted against. It only needed 50 more Tories to vote for either a customs union or common market 2.0 and there was parliamentary consensus for a Brexit.

You make a reasonable point about vote share for Government, however we elect a government on a whole range of issues, the whole breadth of running the country, and then you can be voted out in 5 years (or 2!).

The 52-48 was just one question, once in a generation, no detail, no deeper policy. Corbyn was massively criticised during the campaign because he said he wanted to remain but to reform our membership. Had it been 48-52 then that is also how we'd have to have looked at it, remain, but we cannot remain as we currently are because 48% are against it.

 

[BensGrandad]

All related to Brexit but Corbyn has instigated a vote to refuse a recces for the Tory Party in Manchester very democratic. Labour and Lib Dems have theirs and the Greens could have their in a phone box but the single largest party in the country cant hold theirs.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

All related to Brexit but Corbyn has instigated a vote to refuse a recces for the Tory Party in Manchester very democratic.

You are right, a vote is democratic.

 

[BensGrandad]

You are right, a vote is democratic.

What isnt is that The Speaker allowed the vote in the first place. What a failure and turncoat that man is.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

What isnt is that The Speaker allowed the vote in the first place. What a failure and turncoat that man is.

I don’t have any idea what this means

Sorry.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Tories can have their conference, nobody is stopping them. There won't be any bills introduced or major votes. Conferences are mainly for the grass roots.
By not having a recess, other Parliamentary workers can catch up on work missed previously such as committees.



In the meantime, Cummings has told MPs if they don't like death threats, then they should vote for Brexit! Very threatening from an unelected bureaucrat.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-cummingstells-mp-should-vote-20272485
Can you imagine the storm if that had been said in the EU Parliament?

Wake up people. Whether you agree with Brexit or not, our MPs are being threatened. Vote the way we want or you will get death threats.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

In terms of the indicative votes, the Tories decided to vote against pretty much everything other than May's deal, which a sizeable number of them also voted against. It only needed 50 more Tories to vote for either a customs union or common market 2.0 and there was parliamentary consensus for a Brexit.

You make a reasonable point about vote share for Government, however we elect a government on a whole range of issues, the whole breadth of running the country, and then you can be voted out in 5 years (or 2!).

The 52-48 was just one question, once in a generation, no detail, no deeper policy. Corbyn was massively criticised during the campaign because he said he wanted to remain but to reform our membership. Had it been 48-52 then that is also how we'd have to have looked at it, remain, but we cannot remain as we currently are because 48% are against it.

Funnily enough, we already had a parliamentary consensus for Brexit and that was the Brady amendment - the current deal but ditch the backstop which appears to be government policy. Unsurprisingly the EU rejects this and sticks to its position because it knows parliament won't sanction a no-deal so they can get whatever they want.

No concessions for those evil Tory voters then

 

[BensGrandad]

I don’t have any idea what this means

Sorry.

Has any man single handed done more to stop the Tories achieving a deal with Brexit than this man?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Has any man single handed done more to stop the Tories achieving a deal with Brexit than this man?

Jacob Rees-Mogg. He wants to go out with No Deal. He voted against Theresa May three times.

His father wrote a book about it.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Streets-Investment-Profits-World/dp/067162735X

 

[Bold Seagull]

Funnily enough, we already had a parliamentary consensus for Brexit and that was the Brady amendment - the current deal but ditch the backstop which appears to be government policy. Unsurprisingly the EU rejects this and sticks to its position because it knows parliament won't sanction a no-deal so they can get whatever they want.

No concessions for those evil Tory voters then

Isn't it sticking to it because it's what it's member most effected by Brexit wants?

And when you say evil Tory voters, when you've got former Tory prime ministers and grandees of past Tory governments sticking the knife in, it's time to have a bit of objective judgement.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Isn't it sticking to it because it's what it's member most effected by Brexit wants?

It's possible the member that would be most affected by Brexit might be more flexible if it thought no deal, the outcome it least wanted, was an almost certain outcome if they didn't change position.

 

[Bodian]

All related to Brexit but Corbyn has instigated a vote to refuse a recces for the Tory Party in Manchester very democratic. Labour and Lib Dems have theirs and the Greens could have their in a phone box but the single largest party in the country cant hold theirs.

Every year Parliament has a vote to decide whether the House should have a recess for the conference season. The vote you are referring to was not 'instigated' by Corbyn, it was 'instigated' by the Government asking if they could have a recess. You cannot really blame the opposition parties for saying no, given what's gone on beforehand.

The conference will still be held, and MPs can attend it if they so wish. It's just that Parliament will also be sitting.

If Johnson had not unlawfully prorogued Parliament, there would not have been an issue.

 

[Bodian]

Has any man single handed done more to stop the Tories achieving a deal with Brexit than this man?

The Government / Tories DID achieve a deal - but the ERG rejected it. Nothing to do with Bercow.