[Politics] Brexit

[Neville's Breakfast]

Do you not find ANY of the circumstances surrounding all this even a bit dubious? Do you find it odd that the DUP would pay so much money for a Brexit ad that didn’t run in Northern Ireland? Do you find it worrying that Steve Bannon is recorded saying that he helped Johnson with speeches? What about Priti Patel and her work with Viasat?

The whole thing has stunk from top to bottom, it’s not just this part ffs! The Tories have Well and truly ****ed this country and are now collectively lurching As far to the right as they can to snaffle Farage supporters.

But ‘this part’ is what we are debating. You are actually unhappy with other things which makes all today’s outrage a bit fake. If your side actually told the truth about this being 4 days rather than several weeks then people would take it more seriously.
What I find dubious is the role played by Goldman Sachs and others on the other side of the debate. You have some strange bedfellows there.

 

[pb21]

Rightio. You do know Boris Johnson’s social views and indeed his very late conversion to voting Leave. He is a chancer; nothing more, nothing less. Lots of accusations can be leveled at him but being extreme right wing is not one of them and he is the decision maker in this Government.
Only yesterday Remain MPs were plotting to install one of their own as PM and you are accusing Johnson of a coup attempt.
I don’t mean this in any way personally but on this issue you and many others seem to have lost your minds.

A rare post of sanity amongst all the hysterical responses to today's developments. I came to that conclusion about 18 months ago .....

It's not sanity, it's fundamentally incorrect and you would have to have lost your mind to think otherwise.

The 'plot' from yesterday was constructed around the idea of a fully functioning sovereign Parliament to ensure that the democratic and due process is adhered to.

The 'plot' from today is based around shutting down Parliament to avoid a democratic and due process taking place.

 

[highflyer]

ITV News saying that her resignation has nothing to do with Boris latest moves to thwart the remainers who wanted to stop the democratic decision to leave. but due to her becoming a mother and not being able to combine family and a further political career.

Ha ha ha ha ha
Righto.

 

[CHAPPERS]

But ‘this part’ is what we are debating. You are actually unhappy with other things which makes all today’s outrage a bit fake. If your side actually told the truth about this being 4 days rather than several weeks then people would take it more seriously.

Okay mate. So I can’t be angry about just another move by Johnson to avoid any scrutiny for his plans. Has he told you how he’s going to avoid the backstop that he voted for yet? Do you think he has any ideas?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The speaker has called it a constitutional outrage, is that not enough for you?

Come on. You think he is neutral on this issue ? Of course you don’t.

 

[beorhthelm]

Why can’t leavers understand the simple fact that the result of the referendum didn’t suddenly stop democracy. MPs have a duty to represent those of us the voted to remain in the EU. So that means fighting the government in order to get the best deal possible. It’s also worth remember that Brextremists are just as culpable at dragging this out.

trouble is too many have sat on their hands, heckling, because they represent leave constituencies while they perfer to remain. or of course others not voting for a deal because it wasnt leave enough. either way the MPs are principly to blame for allowing this to drag out.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Problem is many aren't fighting the government to get 'the best deal possible'.. many are looking to reverse the 2016 referendum result and renege on all the 2017 general election manifesto commitments to deliver Brexit.

At the last general election roughly 54% of the electorate voted for parties who were either remain or wanted a ‘soft’ Brexit. So one could argue they are doing exactly what they’ve been voted in to do.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'm tempted to say you really don't understand what is happening.

But I think you do.

Also 'my side'? Not really. I was on the fence and quite happy with a soft brexit.

Yes I do understand and I know enough to recognize hysterical over reaction and fake news when I see it.

 

[the right footed denilson]

But ‘this part’ is what we are debating. You are actually unhappy with other things which makes all today’s outrage a bit fake. If your side actually told the truth about this being 4 days rather than several weeks then people would take it more seriously.
What I find dubious is the role played by Goldman Sachs and others on the other side of the debate. You have some strange bedfellows there.

4 days is still 4 days.

This whole 'Johnson is far right' thing is all a bit of a smokescreen, but easily memeable.
The reality is that Johnson thinks this is the best way of him winning a GE. Brexit doesn't matter to him either way, he's purely a careerist.
He knows that if we leave with no deal (and assuming the other parties can't actually get themselves together), the leavers will vote him in, and if parliament some how scupper that then leavers will vote him in under the context he is anti-elite blah blah blah and the only person able to get Brexit done.
It's a risk- you'd hope people would actually go out and vote against him- but one worth taking, and could be a masterstroke. Or utter humiliation.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Perhaps they should all cancel their party conferences and stay in parliament instead if they really want to try and sort this mess out.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

At the last general election roughly 54% of the electorate voted for parties who were either remain or wanted a ‘soft’ Brexit. So one could argue they are doing exactly what they’ve been voted in to do.

Hmmm ….. stretching the truth there somewhat …. as many remainers do !

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's not sanity, it's fundamentally incorrect and you would have to have lost your mind to think otherwise.

The 'plot' from yesterday was constructed around the idea of a fully functioning sovereign Parliament to ensure that the democratic and due process is adhered to.

The 'plot' from today is based around shutting down Parliament to avoid a democratic and due process taking place.

I’m afraid that’s nonsense. Parliament is always shut when a new PM initiates a Queens Speech and Parliament was going to be shut anyway because of the party conference season. I’m afraid you are just regurgitating the lies you have heard from Heseltine etc.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

We are now firmly striding down the path to autocracy and the one who follows the Clown PM will be much worse ( and I'm not referring to Corbyn ).

The end of democracy is a sad day indeed.

I suppose for any watching overseas it is a fascinating, if somewhat sad, spectacle.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Come on. You think he is neutral on this issue ? Of course you don’t.

Phillip Hammond has said the same. Plenty of Tories speaking out against this. You’re trying to make it sounds like it’s a small matter.

Dominic Cummings, found in contempt of parliament in March, is a top advisor for Johnson now. Your refusal to believe that Johnson’s behavior might be even a bit questionable is a little odd to me.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It's not sanity, it's fundamentally incorrect and you would have to have lost your mind to think otherwise.

The 'plot' from yesterday was constructed around the idea of a fully functioning sovereign Parliament to ensure that the democratic and due process is adhered to.

The 'plot' from today is based around shutting down Parliament to avoid a democratic and due process taking place.

Both 'plots' were about manoeuvering to get the outcome they want, it's called politics. Parliament, if it so chooses, can still no confidence the government, seize control of the order paper and will get a vote on the Queen's speech all before the 31st Oct. Losing four more days has just concentrated a few minds to finally get off the fence.... about bloody time.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Hmmm ….. stretching the truth there somewhat …. as many remainers do !

You tell yourself whatever helps you need sleep at night mate. Won’t stop the above being true though

 

[pb21]

I’m afraid that’s nonsense. Parliament is always shut when a new PM initiates a Queens Speech and Parliament was going to be shut anyway because of the party conference season. I’m afraid you are just regurgitating the lies you have heard from Heseltine etc.

I'm afraid that's nonsense.

It doesn't have to be now, particularly given the current situation.
It doesn't have to be this long, particularly given the current situation.
Parliament would potentially/likely have decided to sit during conference season, particularly given the current situation.

I'm afraid you are just regurgitating the lies you have heard from Redwood etc.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just to think that this whole problem of Brexit has been brought about by remainer MPs not being prepared to accept that they lost the referendum and trying to change the result. Had they done their duty and bvoted the way of their constituents this would have all been solved ages ago.

It works both ways. There are remainer constituencies where their MP is voting with the Brexiters. Stephen Lloyd representing Eastbourne is a remain MP but resigned the Liberal whip because Eastbourne voted to leave. It isn't just black or white MPs voting against their consituents.
The last time the deal was voted for, it was defeated by 58 votes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47752017

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Okay mate. So I can’t be angry about just another move by Johnson to avoid any scrutiny for his plans. Has he told you how he’s going to avoid the backstop that he voted for yet? Do you think he has any ideas?

Well you seem to have decided he hasn’t.
We will soon find out.
I’m not happy about the current situation but we are where we are because Theresa May’s Remain Government did not seriously negotiate with the EU over 3 years.

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m afraid that’s nonsense. Parliament is always shut when a new PM initiates a Queens Speech and Parliament was going to be shut anyway because of the party conference season. I’m afraid you are just regurgitating the lies you have heard from Heseltine etc.

while thats true in part, they have manufactured a queens speech and time it so they rise as soon as possible and return with not enough time for a no confidence process to go through. thats really the story here, taking that option off the table. MPs can still end this, they just have to be decisive.

and yes, its conspicuous that parties apposed havent suggested cancelling conferences to work this through, but there we are, party and campaigning is more important.