[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

I get your point but I don't agree with your analysis. Parties coalesce into vague left and right blocs, and you still end up with government and opposition. The only real difference resulting from PR is there is more chance that smaller parties will get seats making it more likely that coalitions will be required. This means large mainstream parties teaming up withh smaller extreme parties. Thus in Israel we have right wing religious extreme parties part of the government bloc with Likud, or (occasionally) the hairy arse lefties in coalition with labour. It is a bit like here when May had to buddy up with the DUP (doh!). Solves nothing, gives voice to extremists, plus you NEVER get what you voted for because coalitions require compromise within the government block, and compromise means going back on election promises. Of all the things that spell suicide for a British Government (especially a labour one) is going back on promises. And elsewhere PR generates weak and unstable governments and a need for a new general election every few years (Italy). I prefer the system we have, and feel that we get the governments we deserve.

I refer the Right Honourable Gentleman to my earlier answer https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?367132-Proportional-Representation&p=8962018&viewfull=1#post8962018

Of the 43 countries most often considered to be within Europe, 40 use some form of proportional representation to elect their MPs.

Unfortunately, I understand enough about the situation to know it isn't going to happen and I'm mature enough to accept it

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1151759606139543554[/TWEET]

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

While you raise a valid point about Corbyn's behaviour during the referendum, I'm not sure what more they could have done. They put forward countless motions about alternative approaches, all of which were defeated. The opposition doesn't really have much sway when it comes down to it.

And the programme was about the EU's interaction with the UK and Labour was excluded from the process. What were they to do? Was Starmer supposed to turn up at a meeting Davis or Raab was having and gatecrash it in an Ivanka Trump fashion?

I think we might agree to differ. But if you can (or anyone can) discern a coherent, consistent, convincing and clear Labour policy on Brexit 2106-19 then please capture and share. Because I simply couldn't no matter how hard I tried and how much I wanted to.

 

[Simster]

I think we might agree to differ. But if you can (or anyone can) discern a coherent, consistent, convincing and clear Labour policy on Brexit 2106-19 then please capture and share. Because I simply couldn't no matter how hard I tried and how much I wanted to.

I have to agree with you. Labour were admittedly caught between a rock and a hard place where huge swathes of their heartland voted leave but the more liberal urban vote on which they depend are vehemently anti-Brexit. But I think their policy of sitting on the fence while the Tories made a complete mess of it went on for far too long. They needed to pick a side at some point. As a consequence, I no longer trust them and I suspect that follows for huge numbers on either side of the Brexit debate.

I can't see anything other than a GE being called this side of January. Boris is a useless c*nt and it is apparent that he won't be proroguing parliament. If he even tries, there are enough Tories to vote for a motion of no confidence. If he doesn't, he'll be even worse than May as he is tries to deliver his promises that are not deliverable and a motion of no confidence will be called on him anyway.

When that happens, the Brexit party will win huge numbers of seats and what happens with Brexit will be entirely dependent on whether the remain side actually co-operate effectively. Both Labour and Conservative will be decimated and deservedly so. At least it should spell the end of this FPTP voting system which is well past its sell by date.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Tories gonna get in bed with Farage.

“And we must give credit where credit is due. So I applaud Nigel Farage for walking away, calling Ukip ‘thugs and extremists’,” Javid said. “Even though his Brexit party has not made my life any easier, I want to be clear – they are not extremists.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...l-farage-in-speech-on-extremism-boris-johnson

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The replies to this! As it stands, 29% of the votes are to ban it.

[tweet]1152186483568254977[/tweet]

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Great Panorama programme last night putting the last 3 years of turmoil into some sort of context. My 'takeaways' from this:

- the govt had no clue how to deliver Brexit

- May didn't consult the Cabinet when she launched into her 'no deal is better than a bad deal' routine (she tacked to the right to over-compensate for being a Remainer)

- she was the DUP's puppet

- the EU negotiators kept thinking that we had a cunning plan and couldn't quite believe it when we turned up without a clue; they outflanked our lot at every opportunity

- David Davies was completely out of his league and really should have stayed in the pub (in every interview he seemed to find something to laugh at, other than his own lamentable performance)

- interesting and significantly the whole programme managed to pass by without any mention of the Labour Party. I thought this was very fitting as in effect they went missing.


Overall it was a relentlessly depressing picture of how the whole thing was carried out. (It ties in with the documentary on Boris Johnson the previous night when, in his morning-after-the night-before 'victory' speech after the Referendum, he appeared to be in shock. It was similar to the reports that Trump neither expected nor wanted to win the USA presidential election. Which helps to explain the the chaos that followed on both sides of the Atlantic.) This is policy-making undertaken in a style that can be described as 'back-of-a-beermat'.

We are a total shambles of a country and (therefore) our next Prime Minister is a totally appropriate choice.

The programme confirmed the main reason why I decided to vote remain.
I knew that our Prime Minister, Ninisters, MPs and negotiators were incapable of handling Brexit, starting off with that clown Davies.
Europe have had us for dinner and we are the laughing stock of Europe and the world.
Even the pound is weak and getting weaker against the Euro.
It's all been a total farce and it's time that the whole sorry episode is stopped in its tracks now.

 

[A1X]

The replies to this! As it stands, 29% of the votes are to ban it.

[tweet]1152186483568254977[/tweet]

I literally said earlier today elsewhere that there are some people so zealot-ish about this that if you told them the EU had banned jumping off cliffs they'd be straight down Beachy Head. It's insane.

 

[Simster]

[TWEET]1151759606139543554[/TWEET]

It''s almost as if the fat tiresome Eton twàt hasn't bothered with trifling matters such as consulting experts before speaking to the public.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Same old scare mongering from the same old sad acts LEAVE MEANS LEAVE as instructed in the referendum result, no pressure groups, no second referendum it will be your decision
Regards
DR

 

[Motogull]

It''s almost as if the fat tiresome Eton twàt hasn't bothered with trifling matters such as consulting experts before speaking to the public.

He makes it up as he goes along. Its all a bit of a laugh to him. The last thing we need is another bungle**** fronting this.

 

[WATFORD zero]

He makes it up as he goes along. Its all a bit of a laugh to him. The last thing we need is another bungle**** fronting this.

Another bungle**** ?

Trust me, he takes bunglecuntery to a whole different level and, I believe, may have played a significant role in the definition of the word bungle****

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The replies to this! As it stands, 29% of the votes are to ban it.

[tweet]1152186483568254977[/tweet]

Not remotely surprising to be honest, that the ppf’s amongst us, would have (almost all) been triggered into reactively clicking the ‘ant-EU’ option, without a second’s thought of the need to understand the question.

Presumably after reading some of the responses they realise that their snap choice, would lead to a very bad outcome. In such a circumstance would it be a good idea to allow people a further vote?

 

[Bakero]

It''s almost as if the fat tiresome Eton twàt hasn't bothered with trifling matters such as consulting experts before speaking to the public.

A bit of Blitz spirit trumps experts.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not remotely surprising to be honest, that the ppf’s amongst us, would have (almost all) been triggered into reactively clicking the ‘ant-EU’ option, without a second’s thought of the need to understand the question.

Presumably after reading some of the responses they realise that their snap choice, would lead to a very bad outcome. In such a circumstance would it be a good idea to allow people a further vote?

There's always been those on here that would vote against anything that they thought the EU was involved in regardless of any understanding of any facts whatsoever (Ppf, Two Profs, bashlsdir, Melias Shoes etc.) Just look at all the cheers Johnson got for his ridiculous Manx Kipper and Mars Bar speeches in the last week, both of which were shown to be complete lies within the hour.

However, more worrying to me, is that fact that leave voters who appear perfectly lucid are now saying that they believe nobody (them, me, you, the government, the experts in their various fields) has any idea whatsoever what would happen in the event of a 'no deal' but that is the way we should go for the whole future of the UK economy and all future international trade.

Why would somebody who has any level of responsibility (employment, employees, financial, personal, offspring etc etc) want to risk all their responsibilities on a decision where they claim nobody has any idea of the outcome?

That's what I'm really struggling to understand

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

When Boris (or Alexander, his real name) was in the south west recently we all got very excited, he promised that the A38 would be vastly improved, the A303 will be a dual carriageway all the way and the rail link will be massively upgraded so that more high speed trains and much faster travelling times achieved, if he becomes Prime Minister.
At last the news we have all been waiting for.
The fact that every Prime Minister has said the same thing for many years without a single thing done about it so far is neither here nor there.
We are hoping that Boris is a man of his word and before long we will finally get what we desperately need.
Here's hoping.
Go Boris.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He makes it up as he goes along. Its all a bit of a laugh to him. The last thing we need is another bungle**** fronting this.

Possibly. But it is going to fun watching him humiliated and then crushed by the EU. Cake-and-eat-it, whistle, Prosecco etc.

 

[Gwylan]

...We are hoping that Boris is a man of his word...

That will be a first

 

[WATFORD zero]

We are hoping that Boris is a man of his word .

Unfortunately of the two hopes you have, this one is still your best bet



and he's been gone 16 years

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nazi SCUM like you will not win.

Welcome back.