[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Keep the covers over my head? How silly. I'm not afraid of freedom of movement, especially when the EU has in place a system for ensuring that migrants have a job within three months and health insurance.
Just a shame our own government fell down on exit checks (Blair)

Nothing to do with being afraid, more along the lines of what people find acceptable ,I don't find inviting people in on a free for all basis who
have affected wages and put a strain on our services appealing neither do millions of others# taking back control
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Please don't insult other people on my behalf. I'm very capable of standing up for myself, and insulting the leavers doesn't help.

He's only insulting himself
Regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nothing to do with being afraid, more along the lines of what people find acceptable ,I don't find inviting people in on a free for all basis who
have affected wages and put a strain on our services appealing neither do millions of others# taking back control

Some light reading for you.

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

In case you are struggling here is a synopsis.

The study finds that

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult.

In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

 

[The Clamp]

Please don't insult other people on my behalf. I'm very capable of standing up for myself, and insulting the leavers doesn't help.

It was all on my behalf. But I take your point.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Nothing to do with being afraid, more along the lines of what people find acceptable ,I don't find inviting people in on a free for all basis who
have affected wages and put a strain on our services appealing neither do millions of others# taking back control
regards
DR

Some light reading for you.

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

In case you are struggling here is a synopsis.

The study finds that

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult.

In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

Wasting your time. That report is about the positive net contribution of EU migrants. DR wants to control free movement (from Europe) to keep out all those dirty leeches and potential terrorists he saw on Nigel Farage's nazi-inspired poster.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Some light reading for you.

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

In case you are struggling here is a synopsis.

The study finds that

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult.

In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

Good to see the numbers reducing , 2 year old stats don't wash with me , the days of phone a friend and co habbitating sleeping on bunk beds and clogging up Doctors waiting rooms are coming to an end
regards
DR

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I value my country and my family too much to see it go down the pan with some Brexit fantasy false promises.

Well one side of the argument is ultimately going to be right.
The EU will come under pressure like never before. If it survives long term, defying history since time began, then fine. France and Germany, are already safeguarding their future in an alliance that is really a Franco-German pact. IMHO it is too large, too unwieldy, with too many member states that are too small and a drain on the EU.
The likely scenario in the UK is a continued growth in the services sector, at the further expense of manufacturing. It is already 80% of our economy and that will grow even larger. We are likely to strengthen our hand in the financial world whilst our trade in goods will continue to show an even greater trade deficit.
Either way could be painful. Leave and face an expected drop in GDP. Remain and watch the European political situation with care. It could get very scary.

 

[albion68]

Some light reading for you.

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

In case you are struggling here is a synopsis.

The study finds that

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult.

In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year.

Brexit was all about immigration IMO also the pace of it in the Blair years .The ones from Eastern Europe work very hard everyone knows .Blair made the mistake of thinking it was only going to be 13,000 yearly ,then the other EU Countries said they were going hold back for a few years so it was only UK ,Ireland and Sweden that took the most people .It was the speed of it that affected people`s views IMO.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So are you in agreement with Lever with his earlier post that MP`s will do what is right for us regardless of what we voted for ,what is in their view our best interest .In the event of another Referendum would they do the same ?

It is long-enshrined in our hallowed system of representative democracy (see Edmund Burke) that our representatives should act according to the best interests of the nation. In fact, it is one of the formal requirements of MPs that they should do so.

This is the basic reason why statesmen from, say, Margaret Thatcher to Clement Attlee regarded referendums as enemies of democracy. They put huge pressure on our representatives to act in a way that they feel is against the national interest.

But we are where we are. It is well-known that before the referendum a majority of MPs felt that the best interests of the nation were not served by leaving the European Union. Most, however, have supported us leaving since the result came in. Presumably, they take the view that if leaving the EU is against the national interest, then failing to do so would be even more so.

The problem is that, as stated before, the referendum was flawed in so many ways, not least in that the version of Brexit sold to the public is simply unobtainable (It was rather like people being sold a very cheap car that uses no petrol - you can have either of those two qualities, but not in the same car.) and MPs therefore have to devise what they regard as an optimal Brexit. Unfortunately there is no consensus among them and the referendum gave them no guidance as to which of the wildly-different versions has the most public support.

If a further in-out referendum pinned the question down to a specific form of Brexit then MPs would at least have a clearer 'mandate' and the evidence seems to be that they would accept it.

 

[ManOfSussex]

So despite believing it won’t be as bad as many would like us to believe, based on years of experience, I know **** all and you’re much better placed than anyone else to pass comment and we should all believe you instead. Ok. Which constituency do you represent? And which multi National did you resign from as CEO to serve your community instead? And how do you find the time to post on NSC all the time too? I’m all ears...

Sorry - I do realise I'm not:

A Tory MP with a posh English accent
A Brexit Backer
Ex-Public School
A believer in Britian
A believer in technological solutions that don't exist anywhere else in the world for borders
Someone who ran their own business, who knows that in a negotiation you have to be prepared to walk way, so that's why no deal - absolutely - has to be left on the table which would qualify me to lead the biggest set of diplomatic negotiations undertaken by this country since the 1940s, as would going to Eton College.
Who had a Daddy/Papa who used to run and have a little place in Africa called Kenya pronounced Keen-Ya.

Apologies again, I'll try to know my place and remember that it's all just project fear, political correctness gone mad and virtue signaling by leftie, snowflake, Guardian reading, remoaner, social justice warrior, experts who need to realise, just like Johnny Foreigner does in Brussels, that we hold all the aces and beat them in World War 2 and had an empire upon which the sun never set.

 

[albion68]

It is long-enshrined in our hallowed system of representative democracy (see Edmund Burke) that our representatives should act according to the best interests of the nation. In fact, it is one of the formal requirements of MPs that they should do so.

This is the basic reason why statesmen from, say, Margaret Thatcher to Clement Attlee regarded referendums as enemies of democracy. They put huge pressure on our representatives to act in a way that they feel is against the national interest.

But we are where we are. It is well-known that before the referendum a majority of MPs felt that the best interests of the nation were not served by leaving the European Union. Most, however, have supported us leaving since the result came in. Presumably, they take the view that if leaving the EU is against the national interest, then failing to do so would be even more so.

The problem is that, as stated before, the referendum was flawed in so many ways, not least in that the version of Brexit sold to the public is simply unobtainable (It was rather like people being sold a very cheap car that uses no petrol - you can have either of those two qualities, but not in the same car.) and MPs therefore have to devise what they regard as an optimal Brexit. Unfortunately there is no consensus among them and the referendum gave them no guidance as to which of the wildly-different versions has the most public support.

If a further in-out referendum pinned the question down to a specific form of Brexit then MPs would at least have a clearer 'mandate' and the evidence seems to be that they would accept it.

I reckon we are where we are because Parliament is mainly Remain biased ,which suits a Remain voter of coarse . Another poster said the EU is devisive i think that is true for the UK . Brexit was mainly a protest vote about immigration IMO,so that might explain why there is no thoughts of the type of Brexit other then control of immigration . Would it not be better if we came out of the EU with a deal because no one i doubt wanted no deal and if we found out it was a mistake over time we could rejoin as we are told it is easy to leave it must be easy to rejoin .In that way the country would be mostly united because the proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...be-EU-speech-latest-brexit-party-nigel-farage
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

feeling the Brexit party pressure ?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...s-johnson-after-nodeal-warnings-a4183431.html
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Good to see the numbers reducing , 2 year old stats don't wash with me , the days of phone a friend and co habbitating sleeping on bunk beds and clogging up Doctors waiting rooms are coming to an end

I've seen two consultant rheumatologists over the last four years. Both of them are European (and I don't mean British) I live in the same town as you and never have problems getting a doctor's appointment.
Talking of doctors, my local GP's have a screen showing you how many people don't bother turning up for their appointments for the previous month. I bet that 'clogs' up waiting rooms eh?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I've seen two consultant rheumatologists over the last four years. Both of them are European (and I don't mean British) I live in the same town as you and never have problems getting a doctor's appointment.
Talking of doctors, my local GP's have a screen showing you how many people don't bother turning up for their appointments for the previous month. I bet that 'clogs' up waiting rooms eh?

you're making far to many assumptions, look at the broader picture , some EU migrants have made a go of it others have turned up for a fast buck , the " good times" are coming to an end , hopefully we'll be inviting the people we really need in the future rather than the roll up at the coach station mob ?
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

you're making far to many assumptions, look at the broader picture , some EU migrants have made a go of it others have turned up for a fast buck , the " good times" are coming to an end , hopefully we'll be inviting the people we really need in the future rather than the roll up at the coach station mob ?

The Tories have set a wage limit of 30K a year so no nurses, care workers, fruit pickers or farm workers which are what is really needed.
The Home Office is making a complete pigs ear of Settled status for those who are already here (I've read just such a case today) and have been for decades.

 

[Eeyore]

feeling the Brexit party pressure ?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...s-johnson-after-nodeal-warnings-a4183431.html
regards
DR

So the treasury itself is saying no deal will cost £90b. Worth it ?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...on-time-brexit-party-anthem-protest-dignified
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So the treasury itself is saying no deal will cost £90b. Worth it ?

in the long term yes, taking into consideration we wouldn't be paying the EU their ransom demand
regards
DR

 

[Peter Ward]

you're making far to many assumptions, look at the broader picture , some EU migrants have made a go of it others have turned up for a fast buck , the " good times" are coming to an end , hopefully we'll be inviting the people we really need in the future rather than the roll up at the coach station mob ?
regards
DR

Do we really need you in the future?