[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

I had a meeting last night with my financial advisor, he said he Joined the Tories a few months back for one reason only to vote for Boris and get Brexit done.

We had a great chat over a cuppa and a biscuit about how snowflake Britain has been melting for years.

If I was gay I would have let him lick my hobnob there and then.

So are you going to do the traditional Brexity thing and move all your money offshore?

 

[nicko31]

Canada not playing ball.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/canada-is-refusing-to-roll-over-its-eu-trade-agreement-for

Why would they? We'll be desperate and their for the taking...

 

[WATFORD zero]

I had a meeting last night with my financial advisor, he said he Joined the Tories a few months back for one reason only to vote for Boris and get Brexit done.

We had a great chat over a cuppa and a biscuit about how snowflake Britain has been melting for years.

If I was gay I would have let him lick my hobnob there and then.

You do realise that Ppf's mate who tells you how to 'get the most out of the social' and 'where to get your booze and baccy' isn't an IFA in the traditional sense?

I'd love to know what funds he's recommending for a 'no deal' Brexit and what the FSA would make of it

 

[Hampster Gull]

Why would they? We'll be desperate and their for the taking...

The U.K. will be bending over backwards and taking it fairly hard

 

[birthofanorange]

And quite rightly so. God Save The Queen is our National Anthem. The National Anthem of our sovereign State.

The EU is not (yet) a sovereign State. I always stand for our National Anthem, and for the National Anthems of other nations. If the arguments I've read over the past dozen or so pages that the EU is not one State and wont ever be....what's the problem? The EU is not a "nation" so what's it doing with its own national anthem?

Jesus, you must get pretty knackered during the Olympics.

 

[nicko31]

The Tory leadership race is a farce with both candidates promising the undeliverable who ever wins will find the same Brexit issues I assume we will request another extension which will take us to beyond the next uk election

Right from start I've been of the view whoever tells the most lies and is most disconnected from reality will become the next British PM

 

[Baldseagull]

That's painful and hilarious in one go. have you read the comments below? The caller comments and still bangs on and on without actually managing to mention what this mystery technology was.

He also blames O'Brien for damaging his relationship with 'SmartGlyph' - Mate, you made a tw@t of yourself on the radio and made the claims. What a knob.

I had to have a look at the link he provided, apparently he wrote this piece, it is a bit out there, but it is in the right place. http://www.voteloony.com/index.php/101#itemCommentsAnchor an interesting political affiliation! I think maybe he is confused as to the authenticity of his parties policies.

He finishes with this:
A time based economy is simply a suggested pathway to a better ethos for all of us… hopefully one of peace. With possible destruction becoming seemingly more prominent every day and with the looming possibility of a ‘one world currency’ hanging in the air like a Hail Mary punt towards globalisation [aka World Peace], would it not be worth taking the time to look at your time being used as value. This could be accomplished by implementing an infallible, auditable, transparent banking system consisting of your banked time... making it fair.

The rich get to keep their big houses, lavish lifestyles and fancy cars, without prejudice for the most part, life still goes on but things will change. Time will take care of legacy, it always does... and the intelligent will undoubtedly rise to cease the day. Carpe Diem; this can only lead to the benefit of everybody, regardless of class.

That, Mr. Anderson... is the sound of inevitability.

I am not sure if he is for real, considering where he posted that, but whichever, "cease the day" is a classic.

 

[birthofanorange]

I truly believe that Brexit won't happen, for many reasons. One of those reasons is that unlike the strange bunch that have the 'Believe in Britain' mantra, I DO actually believe in Britain, but for far different reasons than they seem to. I believe that amongst all the pond life of the politicians, there are a vital few that have their hands firmly on the rudder, and will not allow us to be steered into the chaos of a No Deal, or, perhaps, Brexit itself...hopefully.
Seriously, some of the shite I read here (and elsewhere) from the lower depths (as it were) of Leavers, just makes me think of children who were promised an ice cream, and can't accept the fact that they can't have one, a bit like a collective Violet Elizabeth syndrome.
I have faith in the over-riding ability of this country to stop this total farce from happening.
It's far more likely than unicorns, anyway.

 

[Baldseagull]

Why would they? We'll be desperate and their for the taking...

It appears Jacob Rees-Mogg may have caused some of the difficulty with his promotion of having no tariffs on anything from anywhere, the Canadians rightly feel no need to give us anything if we look likely to be giving an open door to all.

 

[Blue3]

Right from start I've been of the view whoever tells the most lies and is most disconnected from reality will become the next British PM

It was Nazi Germany's propaganda minister who said

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Brexit has been a lie

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This is going to please the Fairy, German Defence Minister appointed to lead the EU Commission !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48847200

She's one of the nominations for election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48847200

 

[pastafarian]

It isn't going to happen though. If we leave at all, we won't be out long enough to get a trade deal sorted with India.

Just going to have to accept it Pasta, Brexit has not survived contact with reality, it's done, it isn't happening, not because anyone is a traitor, it's because Unicorns don't exist, there is no version of Brexit possible that will deliver the promises the Leave campaign made.

If Brexit isnt possible and isnt going to happen, how does your scenario work of leaving but not for very long. Dont think you thought that through.

We have always had sovereign powers; they will be compromised by leaving not enhanced.

Of course we have always had sovereign powers, but as we know some sovereign powers over time have been ceded from Westminster to Brussels, and as you correctly identified we will be “regaining” (your word) these Sovereign powers by leaving the European Union.

The UK Government's own white paper in triggering Article 50 includes the line that the UK Parliament has remained sovereign throughout the UK's membership of both the EEC and the EU. This was voted in favour of by the majority of MPs, including both major parties and all Brexit-supporting MPs. Therefore by claiming that this is wrong you're claiming that the entire triggering of Article 50 was built on lies, which opens it up to challenge under a judicial review.

Actually that white paper line did not include the EEC and simply mentioned the EU. The white paper also made reference to where despite parliament being sovereign, some sovereign powers have been ceded to Brussels (eg Commission delegated Acts).
That paper also mentions repealing the European Communities Act which makes provision for some types of Brussels legislation to have direct effect on the UK without the UK Parliament having to pass any further legislation and by thus repealing will return said sovereign powers to the UK.
I don’t claim this is wrong at all, so you can drop the uninformed drama queen act that triggering A50 was built on lies and somehow therefore on that basis open to judicial review

I suppose you find it easier to chant 'bullshit' than respond in kind. Nowhere did I say that referendum voters in 1937 would have known what was ahead of them (although they might have had a clue) and nowhere, for that matter, did I even say that they would have been daft to have voted for appeasement. It would have been understandable.

My sole point in raising the hypothesis of a 1937 referendum was, as you know, to test your view that referendum results must always be followed, even if developing circumstances and emerging facts suggest that they will damage the country and its people. You have replied that they must be, and imply that your view wouldn't change even if catastrophe results.

Most people would think that you are terribly wrong but if that's your view, fine. At least you're consistent. There is no need to shout.

Nope, more misrepresentation from you, you cant help yourself can you. I said that a referendum result should be honoured and enacted, and in your silly imaginary ref if appeasement won then an appeasement treaty should be signed and completed. I also said that if at a future date there was another referendum after the appeasement treaty had been signed to no longer have appeasement then that referendum should be honoured too and an appeasement treaty undone, much in the same way that I have said if in the future there is a referendum to rejoin the EU after it has been enacted and after we have left and rejoin wins, then that should be honoured and we should rejoin the EU.
You however stand firm that referendums may not be honoured and enacted if you disagree with the decision given. You are an undemocratic loon.

I dont believe most people think its wrong to adhere to a vote and carry it through to finalisation even if one disagrees with the decision given. Most voters value parliamentary democratic accountability in this country. We have of course seen an upsurge in undemocratic loonery recently.(see lib dem remoaners) These people though will just have to live with themselves. At least, thanks to social media, we know who they are and are forever more known to be untrustworthy.
I wasnt shouting.

 

[pastafarian]

The South America deal slashes £4B in tariffs between the south American countries and the EU. Barely a mention in the UK press, yet in terms of free trade its historic and 20 years in the making.
.

Probably barely a mention because it’s still a draft agreement that still requires approval through the usual process and that could still take ages yet or even come unstuck.
There is still a huge lobby group objection led by environmentalists who are massively against this trade deal because of alleged Amazonian destruction and other abuses. They are determined to halt its progress and seek support to kill it dead.



EU-Mercosur deal trades in environmental destruction
by Greenpeace European Unit 28/06/2019

Greenpeace trade expert Naomi Ages said: “Trading more cars for cows is never acceptable when it leads to the destruction of the Amazon, attacks on Indigenous Peoples, and escalating hostility towards civil society. The deal would also increase greenhouse gas emissions and undermine farmers’ livelihoods on both sides of the Atlantic. The EU must stop making trade deals that benefit big corporations greedy for export opportunities, turning a blind eye to the social and environmental damage they cause. The EU has a responsibility to address these injustices, not pave the way for them in return for short-term corporate profit.”
Under president Jair Bolsanaro’s regime, Brazil has seen a spike in human rights violations, including attacks on minorities, Indigenous Peoples, LGBTQ+ people and other vulnerable communities. At the same time, the government has weakened protections for Brazil’s most sensitive and important ecological regions, including the Amazon, and has continued to assault them. President Bolsonaro has also threatened to withdraw Brazil from the Paris Agreement.
The EU and Mercosur countries want to maximise access to each other’s markets and to increase exports. The European Union’s focus is on gaining market access for cars, car parts, energy companies, beverages, and financial services, among others. The EU wants export taxes to be eliminated and it wants access for European companies to bid on procurement contracts at local level, including for contracts with big municipalities or federal states.
In return, the EU is offering Mercosur countries more market access for beef, poultry meat, sugar, and ethanol for biofuels, among other products. Cattle is the biggest driver of deforestation in the Amazon, with 63% of deforested areas occupied by animal pastures. Almost eight thousand square kilometers of the Brazilian Amazon was destroyed in 2018……………..
https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/...e/2122/eu-mercosur-environmental-destruction/




340+ organisations call on EU to halt trade negotiations with Brazil
by Greenpeace European Unit18/06/2019

In an open letter published today, over 340 civil society organisations are demanding that the European Union immediately halt trade negotiations with the Mercosur bloc (Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay) on the grounds of deteriorating human rights and environmental conditions in Brazil. The letter is addressed to the presidents of the EU’s three main institutions ahead of a meeting next week in Brussels, where EU and Mercosur foreign ministers aim to complete the negotiations.

Since Jair Bolsonaro became Brazil’s president on 1 January 2019, his government has dismantled environmental protections, tolerated incursions by armed invaders on Indigenous Peoples’ lands, and overseen a dramatic rise of deforestation rates in the Amazon, undermining years of progress to protect it.
The EU serves as a huge market for Brazilian soy and beef, the production of which drives deforestation and human rights abuses in Brazil on a vast scale. The EU is also Brazil’s second largest trading partner, and taken together, its member states are Brazil’s largest source of foreign direct investment…………..

https://storage.googleapis.com/plan...-20190617-joint-letter-brazil-eu-mercosur.pdf
https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/...halt-mercosur-trade-negotiations-with-brazil/

 

[golddene]

If I believed in every doom and gloom story put up on here I'd become depressed .#believe in Britain
Regards
DR

It's called REALITY old son and about time even you woke up to it! ( I guess you do really but are just too proud to admit you are capeable of being hoodwinked ) #nofoollikeanoldfool

 

[pastafarian]

The WTO has rules about State Aid. Hunt is wrong to promise that.

https://researchbriefings.parliamen...lGHWIReVIwJ7nR5KytOr_SJ4fot_BfvjBmFxu9U6ih_jY

Of course there are rules, the WTO is a rules based trade forum.
But as you pointed out in your link.

“The default position in WTO rules is that subsidies are generally allowed, while EU rules consider subsidies to be generally illegal.”

It is entirely feasible to give actionable state aid to the farming sector under WTO rules without breaking WTO state aid subsidy rules. Its ridiculous to suggest Hunt is wrong to promise something that is entirely possible, when sticking to the rules.
Export state aid subsidies as one example, can and do (as long as they are within the rules of export subsidies) form a part of a nations WTO schedule as an export subsidy commitment.

Yes the WTO has rules. Who elects the World Trade Organisation? Can anyone name a single person who works for the WTO in Switzerland?
Yet, our leavers are desperate to leave the EU with no deal and operate under unelected bureaucrats in Switzerland.

You couldn't make it up.

Jesus wept, why would you want the WTO elected? It’s a trade FORUM for multilateral trade. Representatives of governments, ie delegates, ambassadors and ministers act on behalf of member countries to negotiate trade and settle disputes amongst each other. The rules on trade are mutually agreed by the members themselves. The EU itself operates under the umbrella of the WTO. The WTO is not an economic/political union like the EU, it is a trade FORUM.

As you say, that deal was agreed over 6 months ago, proving the Leave lie, that said we we can't make deals whilst still in the EU(which we are).

Doesn’t prove any lie at all. Just means you don’t understand what is being said.
The trade arrangement with the Swiss(as with others) cannot take effect and become active until either the end of the transition period,if there is a withdrawal agreement, or until/if we leave with no withdrawal agreement in place. Why? Because we cant implement trade arrangement such as these to come into force and be active whilst still in the EU.
It really shouldn’t be as hard as it is for you to understand that the active status of a trade arrangement is what is being referred to, not the getting affairs in place that are to be implemented at a later date.

 

[nicko31]

It was Nazi Germany's propaganda minister who said

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Brexit has been a lie

Privately Joseph Goebbels is admired by some on the Brexit side

Brexit has been a lie from the start, the 2016 campaign was a masterclass in propaganda, still so many questions what really happened and an open NCA case against leave.eu

Where are we now? Well we've gone having our cake and eating it in 2016 to now in 2019 being told if we lose our jobs and businesses it will be worth it for the cause

 

[nicko31]

Probably barely a mention because it’s still a draft agreement that still requires approval through the usual process and that could still take ages yet or even come unstuck.
There is still a huge lobby group objection led by environmentalists who are massively against this trade deal because of alleged Amazonian destruction and other abuses. They are determined to halt its progress and seek support to kill it dead.



EU-Mercosur deal trades in environmental destruction
by Greenpeace European Unit 28/06/2019

Greenpeace trade expert Naomi Ages said: “Trading more cars for cows is never acceptable when it leads to the destruction of the Amazon, attacks on Indigenous Peoples, and escalating hostility towards civil society. The deal would also increase greenhouse gas emissions and undermine farmers’ livelihoods on both sides of the Atlantic. The EU must stop making trade deals that benefit big corporations greedy for export opportunities, turning a blind eye to the social and environmental damage they cause. The EU has a responsibility to address these injustices, not pave the way for them in return for short-term corporate profit.”
Under president Jair Bolsanaro’s regime, Brazil has seen a spike in human rights violations, including attacks on minorities, Indigenous Peoples, LGBTQ+ people and other vulnerable communities. At the same time, the government has weakened protections for Brazil’s most sensitive and important ecological regions, including the Amazon, and has continued to assault them. President Bolsonaro has also threatened to withdraw Brazil from the Paris Agreement.
The EU and Mercosur countries want to maximise access to each other’s markets and to increase exports. The European Union’s focus is on gaining market access for cars, car parts, energy companies, beverages, and financial services, among others. The EU wants export taxes to be eliminated and it wants access for European companies to bid on procurement contracts at local level, including for contracts with big municipalities or federal states.
In return, the EU is offering Mercosur countries more market access for beef, poultry meat, sugar, and ethanol for biofuels, among other products. Cattle is the biggest driver of deforestation in the Amazon, with 63% of deforested areas occupied by animal pastures. Almost eight thousand square kilometers of the Brazilian Amazon was destroyed in 2018……………..
https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/...e/2122/eu-mercosur-environmental-destruction/




340+ organisations call on EU to halt trade negotiations with Brazil
by Greenpeace European Unit18/06/2019

In an open letter published today, over 340 civil society organisations are demanding that the European Union immediately halt trade negotiations with the Mercosur bloc (Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay) on the grounds of deteriorating human rights and environmental conditions in Brazil. The letter is addressed to the presidents of the EU’s three main institutions ahead of a meeting next week in Brussels, where EU and Mercosur foreign ministers aim to complete the negotiations.

Since Jair Bolsonaro became Brazil’s president on 1 January 2019, his government has dismantled environmental protections, tolerated incursions by armed invaders on Indigenous Peoples’ lands, and overseen a dramatic rise of deforestation rates in the Amazon, undermining years of progress to protect it.
The EU serves as a huge market for Brazilian soy and beef, the production of which drives deforestation and human rights abuses in Brazil on a vast scale. The EU is also Brazil’s second largest trading partner, and taken together, its member states are Brazil’s largest source of foreign direct investment…………..

https://storage.googleapis.com/plan...-20190617-joint-letter-brazil-eu-mercosur.pdf
https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/...halt-mercosur-trade-negotiations-with-brazil/

Pasta I must admit you do have a diverse range of hobbies. Never met a Brexiter so interested in environmental causes. Are you a vegan as well?

 

[nicko31]

I truly believe that Brexit won't happen, for many reasons. One of those reasons is that unlike the strange bunch that have the 'Believe in Britain' mantra, I DO actually believe in Britain, but for far different reasons than they seem to. I believe that amongst all the pond life of the politicians, there are a vital few that have their hands firmly on the rudder, and will not allow us to be steered into the chaos of a No Deal, or, perhaps, Brexit itself...hopefully.
Seriously, some of the shite I read here (and elsewhere) from the lower depths (as it were) of Leavers, just makes me think of children who were promised an ice cream, and can't accept the fact that they can't have one, a bit like a collective Violet Elizabeth syndrome.
I have faith in the over-riding ability of this country to stop this total farce from happening.
It's far more likely than unicorns, anyway.

Well I hope you are right, there are good people in the Tories party but will they have to sacrifice their own careers to avoid disaster...

 

[pastafarian]

Pasta I must admit you do have a diverse range of hobbies. Never met a Brexiter so interested in environmental causes. Are you a vegan as well?

Casting no judgement on the merits or lack of merits of the greenpeace position. I like to keep abreast of current affairs and its something that crossed my radar. Was surprised as well that given how much environmental affairs are in the news, this quite large organised lobby against this trade deal (after reading a few articles) are not gaining even more headline traction in the mainstream news that they probably hoped to be getting.

EDIT: It is of course entirely plausible that Greenpeace are talking out of their arse and their fears dont merit news headlines, cant say i have really looked into beyond becoming aware of their protest position

 

[WATFORD zero]

Pasta I must admit you do have a diverse range of hobbies. Never met a Brexiter so interested in environmental causes. Are you a vegan as well?

Please don't go there, pasta's hobbies at this time in the morning