[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

It is genuinely depressing how many d***heads there are in the shape of other Albion fans who think 'no deal' is a runner.

What is more depressing is the number of Tory MP's that genuinely think its a runner, convinced many just don't understand how business and International trade actually works

There is no mandate from the public for no deal at all and they don't deserve it. If the government wants this the populus must be asked again.

If the public then votes for no deal then it is deserved.

 

[The Clamp]

Boris will send us crashing out of the U.K. like he’s leading a cavalry charge into a volcano.
I have no doubt he will gain power and we will crash out.
And this country will go down the toilet.
Shameful.

 

[pb21]

I read this book some years ago:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom

I can't remember it exactly but I'm sure it's relevant for now. I will read again. Synopsis below.

His initial book, and likely his most influential work, was called Escape From Freedom, published near the beginning of World War II. In it he described freedom as the greatest problem for most individuals. With freedom, according to Fromm, comes an overwhelming sense of aloneness and an inability to exert individual power. He argued that we use several different techniques to alleviate the anxiety associated with our perception of freedom, including automaton, conformity, authoritarianism, destructiveness, and individuation.

The most common of these is automaton conformity. Fromm argued that with the anxiety associated with our inability to express power and our fear of aloneness, we conform ourselves to a larger society. By acting like everyone else, holding the same values, purchasing the same products, and believing in the same morals, we gain a sense of power. This power of the masses assists us in not feeling alone and helpless. Unfortunately, according to Fromm, it also removes our individuality and prevents us from truly being ourselves.

Authoritarianism is a technique that others use to ward off the anxiety. Following an entity outside of the self and perceived greater than the self is the main feature of authoritarianism. As the individual feels alone and powerless, he gains strength from the belief that there is a greater power beyond himself. This entity could be a religious figure, a political leader, or social belief. By giving up power to the powerful, we become the powerful and no longer feel alone. In this sense authoritarianism is two sided or what Fromm describes as sadism/masochism, where we submit to our leader (such as Adolph Hitler) and demand power over our perceived enemies (Jews).

Others use the technique Fromm called destructiveness, which refers to an attempt to destroy those we perceive as having the power. Because of our desire for power, we may feel that this finite resource must be taken from those who possess it. There are many ways to attempt this destruction, including the alignment with hate groups, religious extremism, or even patriotism. While our actions are often antisocial, cruel, and misguided, we rationalize them by claiming a sense of duty, a god given order, or the love of country.

Fromm believed that all three of these techniques used to overcome our anxiety associated with freedom are unhealthy. The only healthy technique is to embrace this freedom and express our true selves rather than what we perceive as giving us power. He argued that true power comes from individuality and freedom and doing what you want to do rather than what you are suppose to do is the only way to achieve individuation; the ability to be yourself and embrace the power associated with true freedom.

 

[albion68]

Careful with your language.... 'experts' are not welcomed by the architects of the Leave lobby. Still, let's believe in the negotiators, and not the voters eh.... they've achieved so much thus far.

According to commentators on the news with all the twist and turns prob end up with an Election so we will all end up equal or some will end up more equal then others .Whats would be the UK `s equivalent to Siberia do you reckon.

 

[Juan Albion]

Whats would be the UK `s equivalent to Siberia do you reckon.

The way things are going, I'd say Scunthorpe.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You have made a good guess there ,my house really does need redecorating .As for your other points i don`t know if the Leave or Remain sides are MP`s or voters everybody seems to put them together gets a bit confusing ,you got leavers being menacing and Remainers Punishing . Apart from the EU elections or going on marches voters are not been able to do much .I am not for no deal mainly because obviously not going to be good thing not only that negotiators from the UK and wthe EU should be able to sort an agreement because thats there job they get paid for it ,they are supposed to be the experts .The French leaders want us to hurry up and bugger off anyway.

No, they don't.

 

[nicko31]

Boris will send us crashing out of the U.K. like he’s leading a cavalry charge into a volcano.
I have no doubt he will gain power and we will crash out.
And this country will go down the toilet.
Shameful.

If there is no deal I don't think there will be a country at all, its the best way to break up the UK. That for me will be the saddest moment for the British people and our final humiliation.

Sadly so many insular Little Englanders, they don't care. That said they still won't be happy...

 

[The Clamp]

If there is no deal I don'r think there will be a country at all, its the best way to break up the UK. That for me will be the saddest moment and our final humiliation....

Will be tragic.
Commons and Parliament still have a few chances to outlaw No Deal.
According to Hilary Benn no party or leader can take the U.K. out on a no deal and they should stop saying it can happen, because it can’t and they should realise that.

I hope he’s right.

 

[albion68]

No, they don't.

Maybe Macron has changed his mind then.

 

[Eeyore]

It is the governments responsibilty. Am I happy? No, however I am not going to feel guilty either. Stop our exit by the 31st Oct or come up with a sensible agreement with the EU. Otherwise we leave.

So delaying things further is off your table even it means essential services suffer ?

 

[albion68]

The way things are going, I'd say Scunthorpe.

Is it snowing up there then ?

 

[Bodian]

There once was a very big house with many bedrooms. The house was painted a nice shade of yellow, but one day someone suggested they paint it blue. There was quite a bit of excitement over this, but it wasn’t shared by everyone. So they rounded up all the occupants and had a vote on it. 48 of the occupants wanted to keep it yellow, but 52 decided they wanted it blue. So blue it was.

But when the day came for the house to be painted, the 52 blue voters turned up with a variety of different shades of blue. Some had been thinking a nice pale blue, others more of a royal blue. Yet more had a dark navy blue and some more went with more of a turquoise. They simply couldn’t agree on which shade of blue to use because it turns out that when they voted, they had completely different visions of what blue would be used. Those who imagined a nice sky blue couldn’t stomach the thought of a dark and dreary navy building. A few of them even said they’d prefer it to stay yellow than go so dark. On the other hand, some who had brought the dark shades didn’t want some namby-pamby baby blue colour, it was even worse than yellow. They simply couldn’t agree, no matter how hard they argued.

And then they discovered that out of the 52 who preferred blue, 4 had thought about it a bit more and had changed their mind and now thought yellow was the right colour after all. And 2 other blue supporters had moved out anyway, and the 2 people replacing them said that they would prefer it to stay yellow. So, there were now 100 occupants, of whom 54 wanted the house to stay yellow - but because earlier people had said they preferred blue, it had apparently got to be blue - even though they didn't actually want it to be blue. And the big painter / decorator in charge wouldn't let them have a new vote to decide what they really wanted now before he turned up with his brushes.

 

[birthofanorange]

One of the most depressing things for me, is the almost blind faith that (some) Leavers have, that it will 'all be fine in the end'. This flies in the face of almost insurmountable evidence from experts in many fields.
Sadly, the fallout from a No Deal will affect us all, and (most likely) affect the rabid 'Leave Means Leave' brigade the most.
I wonder how long it will take, if the shit finally hits the fan, for them to find someone to blame...anybody.....anyone but themselves, for firstly voting for it (based on lies and deception), and secondly the abject failure to listen to (or comprehend) reason, before it was too late.
Btw, I still believe it won't actually happen.

 

[Juan Albion]

And then they discovered that out of the 52 who preferred blue, 4 had thought about it a bit more and had changed their mind and now thought yellow was the right colour after all. And 2 other blue supporters had moved out anyway, and the 2 people replacing them said that they would prefer it to stay yellow. So, there were now 100 occupants, of whom 54 wanted the house to stay yellow - but because earlier people had said they preferred blue, it had apparently got to be blue - even though they didn't actually want it to be blue. And the big painter / decorator in charge wouldn't let them have a new vote to decide what they really wanted now before he turned up with his brushes.

Not until after someone suggested that they select the most popular of all the shades of blue and then hold another vote to see if that is indeed what the people were asking for when they voted for blue or if they actually preferred the yellow to that shade of blue. But the fairy in jackboots popped up again, saying it's not fair to ask the people what they actually want. "Blue is blue" he trumped.

 

[LadySeagull]

You lot do have colourful dreams, I'll give you that.

 

[birthofanorange]

You lot do have colourful dreams, I'll give you that.

My dreams have a happy ending, which is something that may have escaped you for quite some time.

 

[Grombleton]

You lot do have colourful dreams, I'll give you that.

Prove it.

 

[nicko31]

One of the most depressing things for me, is the almost blind faith that (some) Leavers have, that it will 'all be fine in the end'. This flies in the face of almost insurmountable evidence from experts in many fields.
Sadly, the fallout from a No Deal will affect us all, and (most likely) affect the rabid 'Leave Means Leave' brigade the most.
I wonder how long it will take, if the shit finally hits the fan, for them to find someone to blame...anybody.....anyone but themselves, for firstly voting for it (based on lies and deception), and secondly the abject failure to listen to (or comprehend) reason, before it was too late.
Btw, I still believe it won't actually happen.

Yes it will end the protectionist racket that looks after our agriculture and industry. Cheap imports, with regulation out the window.

Disaster capitalists licking their lips.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

There once was a very big house with many bedrooms. The house was painted a nice shade of yellow, but one day someone suggested they paint it blue. There was quite a bit of excitement over this, but it wasn’t shared by everyone. So they rounded up all the occupants and had a vote on it. 48 of the occupants wanted to keep it yellow, but 52 decided they wanted it blue. So blue it was.

But when the day came for the house to be painted, the 52 blue voters turned up with a variety of different shades of blue. Some had been thinking a nice pale blue, others more of a royal blue. Yet more had a dark navy blue and some more went with more of a turquoise. They simply couldn’t agree on which shade of blue to use because it turns out that when they voted, they had completely different visions of what blue would be used. Those who imagined a nice sky blue couldn’t stomach the thought of a dark and dreary navy building. A few of them even said they’d prefer it to stay yellow than go so dark. On the other hand, some who had brought the dark shades didn’t want some namby-pamby baby blue colour, it was even worse than yellow. They simply couldn’t agree, no matter how hard they argued.

Then, out of nowhere and in a puff of pink smoke, suddenly a fairy appeared, screaming “Blue means blue!”

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE as instructed despite the spin you like to use
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Are you happy with medicine shortages and border checks we would not be prepared for ?

You might be, but a leaked cabinet memo shows the government are not...

Glad some people are thinking about others here.

Project fear,
have you got a time scale for how long this meltdown is going on for ?
Regards
DR