[Politics] Brexit

[Kalimantan Gull]

If we'd have left on 29th March as we were supposed to, this would be done and dusted by now.

Yep. As a staunch remainer that deal was just about acceptable, it could have paved the way for us to regroup and come back together as a nation. But the ERG killed it meaning whatever we get is likely to be extreme, a no deal that damages the country or a revocation of article 50 that could lead to unrest and continued division. To be clear, i want the latter on the back of a second referendum, but like many could live with a sensible compromise, which is obviously what May was pushing for

 

[A1X]

Great. Let's be the ones who decide on the laws which apply in this country, let's trade outside the EU, let's decide how many people can move here.

Oh, wait, we can't do any of those things.

Er...yes we can. We can veto any laws we don't like, we can trade with nations outside the EU (and do, all the time) and not only apply whatever rules we want to non-EU citizens but also put restrictions on FoM like most other EU nations already do.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Bloody hope so. If the tories put Boris in charge and a GE follows, they would get DESTROYED !

I’m shocked Boris is going for it this time as it will be more of a disaster than before.

We leave with no deal - he will be slaughtered
We don’t leave - he will he called a traitor etc.

 

[Lever]

It is complete paradox that those, like Boris Johnston, who aspire so determinedly to leadership are often those who are least equipped to do it successfully in a democracy.
In my view leadership is all about engendering informed consent to become a person others feel comfortable following.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Great. Let's be the ones who decide on the laws which apply in this country, let's trade outside the EU, let's decide how many people can move here.

Oh, wait, we can't do any of those things.

Well we can do all of those things, we are (were) extremely influential in the EU. Indeed if we left the EU but were still in customs union we would still have considerable influence over EU trade deals

 

[Curious Orange]

FFS, just revoke article 50 and be done with it. A change of leader of the Conservative party makes no difference to the arithmetic or the intransigence on either side. Leaving without a deal is a stupid idea, leaving with a customs union is equally stupid, and as leaving with the only deal the EU will sign-off isn't going to make it out of Parliament what is left?

Revoke article 50, have a general election, deal with the political consequences in an economically stable position.

 

[dingodan]

Yep. As a staunch remainer that deal was just about acceptable, it could have paved the way for us to regroup and come back together as a nation. But the ERG killed it meaning whatever we get is likely to be extreme, a no deal that damages the country or a revocation of article 50 that could lead to unrest and continued division. To be clear, i want the latter on the back of a second referendum, but like many could live with a sensible compromise, which is obviously what May was pushing for

Of course the deal was acceptable to you as a staunch remainer. It wasn't really leaving.

The one thing you couldn't live with is actually, properly leaving. The thing people actually voted for.

The Brexit decision didn't damage the country. The refusal to accept it and get it done has damaged the country. A fudged new treaty will damage the country and create further division, revoking article 50 will damage the country and create further division. No deal is the only thing now which won't damage the country.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Bloody hope so. If the tories put Boris in charge and a GE follows, they would get DESTROYED !

I’m shocked Boris is going for it this time as it will be more of a disaster than before.

We leave with no deal - he will be slaughtered
We don’t leave - he will he called a traitor etc.

What's truly scary is that we could have a man in charge of the country who "couldn't run a whelk stall" according to members of his own party who will need to work with the likes of Grayling on plans for a no deal exit in October over the traditional summer recess. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Yoda]

Great. Let's be the ones who decide on the laws which apply in this country, let's trade outside the EU, let's decide how many people can move here.

Oh, wait, we can't do any of those things.

Sigh! Yes we can

We passed a law that allows same sex couples to be able to marry, just like Portugal passed it's own law to legalise cannabis. That's just two examples straight from the top of my head.

We do already have a few of our own trade deals outside of the EU's, we even struck up six new ones whilst Brexit has been going on.

Immigration from outside of the EU far out weighs that of from within the EU. We can control this but do not.

 

[ManOfSussex]

No deal is the only thing now which won't damage the country.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

What's truly scary is that we could have a man in charge of the country who "couldn't run a whelk stall" according to members of his own party who will need to work with the likes of Grayling on plans for a no deal exit in October over the traditional summer recess. What could possibly go wrong?

It’s time we got businessmen to negotiate.

Get Daniel Levy on the case.

 

[A1X]

Of course the deal was acceptable to you as a staunch remainer. It wasn't really leaving.

Don't be ridiculous. The Withdrawal Agreement took us out of the EU. How is leaving the EU not "leaving the EU"?

 

[dingodan]

Well we can do all of those things, we are (were) extremely influential in the EU. Indeed if we left the EU but were still in customs union we would still have considerable influence over EU trade deals

No, we can't do all of those things. Staying and begging to change the EU's mind, so that they will allow us to do those things, a) isn't going to happen, and b) isn't self determination. It's asking permission. David Cameron tried that. They patted him on the head and laughed him out of the room.

 

[dingodan]

Yeah well the vote to leave was supposed to cause the sky to fall wasn't it?

But it didn't. Because saying it would was meant to scare people and put them off the idea, just like the same rubbish about No Deal is supposed to scare people and put them off the idea.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I’m shocked Boris is going for it this time as it will be more of a disaster than before.

We leave with no deal - he will be slaughtered
We don’t leave - he will he called a traitor etc.

This was a point made by Rachel Sylvester in her Times column on Tuesday and why she thinks he might pivot toward a referendum. He can't call a general election before Brexit and the numbers in parliament stay the same.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Of course the deal was acceptable to you as a staunch remainer. It wasn't really leaving.

The one thing you couldn't live with is actually, properly leaving. The thing people actually voted for.

The Brexit decision didn't damage the country. The refusal to accept it and get it done has damaged the country. A fudged new treaty will damage the country and create further division, revoking article 50 will damage the country and create further division. No deal is the only thing now which won't damage the country.

You cannot truly believe that?

 

[Greavsey]

FFS, just revoke article 50 and be done with it. A change of leader of the Conservative party makes no difference to the arithmetic or the intransigence on either side. Leaving without a deal is a stupid idea, leaving with a customs union is equally stupid, and as they can't get leaving with the only deal the EU will sign-off isn't going to make it out of Parliament what is left?

Revoke article 50, have a general election, deal with the political consequences in an economically stable position.

This is the only solution, and it beggars belief that the Brexiteers didn't vote for the May deal IMHO. But think would need to be confirmed by a No Deal/Revoke A50 referendum. No PM would have the balls simply to revoke.

Either way we are now stuck in a cycle probably for the next 30 years of Brexit debate..

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Er...yes we can. We can veto any laws we don't like, we can trade with nations outside the EU (and do, all the time) and not only apply whatever rules we want to non-EU citizens but also put restrictions on FoM like most other EU nations already do.

Try creating a law to drop the level of VAT then. Or increasing the maximum working hours allowed. Or creating a trade deal seperately with India.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No, we can't do all of those things. Staying and begging to change the EU's mind, so that they will allow us to do those things, a) isn't going to happen, and b) isn't self determination. It's asking permission. David Cameron tried that. They patted him on the head and laughed him out of the room.

The problem of course is that people like you see the EU as 'them', not as 'us'. We are the EU, we are incredibly powerful, we have huge say. We don't 'beg' for changes. Whatever the **** Cameron was doing when he went over that time i have no idea.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What's truly scary is that we could have a man in charge of the country who "couldn't run a whelk stall" according to members of his own party who will need to work with the likes of Grayling on plans for a no deal exit in October over the traditional summer recess. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not a Boris fan but he did run London ..... Twice !